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Your Least Favorite Gen?

What is your least favorite Pokemon generation?


  • Total voters
    543
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Not open for further replies.

Hidden Power

Well-Known Member
I know that Game Freak puts effort into every game, I just think the progress and effort is most obvious in XY. Dismissing this based on the comparison of sprite development to the 3D development does not make sense to me and it is not a comparison I made in my post. I do not know if BWB2W2 could have been made on the 3DS, but it is my opinion that they should have held out on the new generation until thy could create the games for the 3DS. GameFreak thought that the Gen V product was complete enough to release and so it happened. Many of the sprites in Gen V were just recycled from Gen IV. GameFreak will continue to develop how they see fit, but that does not mean fans have to like everything they do. Of course Pokémon will always have its limits. Even with its limits, Pokémon outshines many other games and will always be a worthwhile experience for me, but that's not to say that it will be for you.

Unfortunately you've not made any clear comparison with regards to effort. What you've mentioned earlier was this:

"Progression is inevitable" is not a valid dismissal of Gen VI, Gen V (or a good part of it) existed at the same time as the 3DS, but did not take advantage of the new system. A lot of the development of the game had to be put into developing models for people, Pokémon, buildings and landscapes. Just because a change was inevitable doesn't mean that we should take it for granted.

Which I take it to mean:
1. Assuming that Gen V 'did not take advantage of the new system', and should have.
2. Placing emphasis on model development for various elements of the game.

For point 1, no one has an answer to it. It could've been that Game Freak could have planned BW/B2W2 for the 3DS but chose not to do so. Or it could have been that they decided to push ahead with developing it for a more familiar console in order to make time for the next generation games on the new console.

For point 2, seeing as your only comment about efforts was with regards to model development, it makes sense for me to use sprite development as a comparison. In fact, you've dismissed BW/B2W2's effort in this regard when you assumed that they've reused the sprites from DPPt. DPPt, or rather Platinum, had only partially animated Pokemon sprites (animated only upon entrance, with fewer frames), and back sprites were the 'partial view style' used since the first generation. Whereas BW/B2W2 had completely animated, full frontal and back sprites.

In a way, you're right in that the 'efforts', or what I call changes, in XY were very obvious seeing as we moved from a sprite-based graphics to 3D models with changing camera views. But I'm not sure if such changes have blinded your judgement in a way that could've made you over-credit XY while undercrediting BW/B2W2 in terms of 'effort'.

That's true. By the way, before mega evolutions and fairy types, there were dragons all over the place. If it wasn't a dragon, it was a pseudo legendary or a few overused pokemons like Blissey or Starmie. So the battle diversity wasn't that strong either.

I find that there's a general limit as to how diverse the pool of powerhouse Pokemon can be in any tier from OU to NU. Usually about 40 Pokemon would have a usage rate of more than 5%, of which roughly 15 Pokemon would take up double-digit usage rates. So if it wasn't dragons all over the place, it'll just be 'something else'. And right now I believe it's pretty obvious which are the regulars taking that top 40 spots this generation. Ghost swords, firebirds, ninjafrogs and the two brozards anyone?

Even if Game Freak churns out more mega, this isn't going to change what seems like a statistical trend in the competitive scene.
 
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ilovemyumbreon

Holding a Moon Shard
Unfortunately you've not made any clear comparison with regards to effort. What you've mentioned earlier was this:



Which I take it to mean:
1. Assuming that Gen V 'did not take advantage of the new system', and should have.
2. Placing emphasis on model development for various elements of the game.

For point 1, no one has an answer to it. It could've been that Game Freak could have planned BW/B2W2 for the 3DS but chose not to do so. Or it could have been that they decided to push ahead with developing it for a more familiar console in order to make time for the next generation games on the new console.

For point 2, seeing as your only comment about efforts was with regards to model development, it makes sense for me to use sprite development as a comparison. In fact, you've dismissed BW/B2W2's effort in this regard when you assumed that they've reused the sprites from DPPt. DPPt, or rather Platinum, had only partially animated Pokemon sprites (animated only upon entrance, with fewer frames), and back sprites were the 'partial view style' used since the first generation. Whereas BW/B2W2 had completely animated, full frontal and back sprites.

In a way, you're right in that the 'efforts', or what I call changes, in XY were very obvious seeing as we moved from a sprite-based graphics to 3D models with changing camera views. But I'm not sure if such changes have blinded your judgement in a way that could've made you over-credit XY while undercrediting BW/B2W2 in terms of 'effort'.
.
XY changed the games graphically and added different mechanics. A down side of that was that there was not much focus on post game. I don't quite know where the focus was in Gen V development. Sure they had decent post game but first you had to make it through the cookie cutter narrative with either forced new Pokémon or recycled old Pokémon. Gen V and Gen VI are very similar with hidden abilities, wireless capabilities, and testing different features, but they are also so different in how the games play.
 

Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
I thought the Gen V development largely dealt with refining wireless communication.

In hindsight the functions from Gen V seem to be a precursor to everything we have in the PSS. Pass-Powers, the Passerby feature, streamlined communications, Random Matchups being brought to the handheld games, Ranking Battles, Global Link...Gen 6 has more or less taken all of that and polished it.

There were also other, little things like accessing all of your boxes during a trade, adding EVs for every fight (as opposed to every level), or letting you use multiple [items] on the menu screen that were much appreciated by me.

I will say however that Black City/White Forest in BW1 was a pretty bad move in that regard. Pokemon's always been the kind of game that we can play solo, even if its meant to be played with others for the full experience. To outright remove a location if you don't play with others...I thought it was a glitch when my B.City buildings starting dropping, lol. Dream World was pretty weak too...It was cute, and had great rewards in DW Pokes, but it was kind of dull in terms of gameplay. And you could only do it for so long each day, so you had to put in this inane amount of time to get the best stuff. Restricting berry planting to that also was especially disappointing.

Though I'm not sure I'd call any generation the worst tbh. They've all contributed something.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I thought the Gen V development largely dealt with refining wireless communication.

In hindsight the functions from Gen V seem to be a precursor to everything we have in the PSS. Pass-Powers, the Passerby feature, streamlined communications, Random Matchups being brought to the handheld games, Ranking Battles, Global Link...Gen 6 has more or less taken all of that and polished it.

There were also other, little things like accessing all of your boxes during a trade, adding EVs for every fight (as opposed to every level), or letting you use multiple [items] on the menu screen that were much appreciated by me.

Not sure I'd call any generation the worst tbh. They've all contributed something.

And it sure did a crackerjack job of that. What did 5th gen add communication wise? The ability to trade Pokemon with your friends without running to a Pokemon Center? A gimmicky online feature that closed down at the end of the generation? Access to the GTS in any Pokemon Center? Most of those things had very little impact on the gameplay, and it wasn't until the PSS came along that they really ramped up the communication aspect.
 

Skylander Sylveon

Top Coordinator
Sixth Generation. :C

They didn't look like Pokemon enough and they didn't really give you that 'WOW LOOK AT THIS GUY HE HAS A COW BONE ON HIS HEAD WHOA' feeling. But they all have good Pokemon and bad and I'm not ALL against X/Y it's just I didn't get that original Pokemon feeling. ;;
 

Hidden Power

Well-Known Member
XY changed the games graphically and added different mechanics. A down side of that was that there was not much focus on post game. I don't quite know where the focus was in Gen V development. Sure they had decent post game but first you had to make it through the cookie cutter narrative with either forced new Pokémon or recycled old Pokémon. Gen V and Gen VI are very similar with hidden abilities, wireless capabilities, and testing different features, but they are also so different in how the games play.

Based on previous trends, initial titles of each generation never had the full post-game content. It's the usual '3 steps forward, 2 steps back' strategy so that the special edition has something to market to the fans, and also give Game Freak more time to develop more content. However, if you're talking about introduction of new mechanics, both Gen V and VI have contributed something significant within the capabilities of the console they're built on.

Both generations improved on the breeding mechanics so that it's less of a hassle. In fact, every generation from III to VI had a role in making breeding easier.

Gen V introduced triple and rotation battles, both which are now legitimate formats for battle tower-like features. Gen VI's Sky Battles is more of a gimmick to showcase its 3D graphics, while inverse battles merely requires the player to remember a different set of rules of engagement. Game Freak could make them part of battle towers, but one would limit the type of Pokemon that can participate, while the latter doesn't really add more strategic depth. Gen VI also introduced the mega evolutions, but from a competitive viewpoint I don't think it has achieved what it was trying to achieve, as I've explained in an earlier post.

Of course, graphics-wise Gen VI has the advantage, and it spared no efforts in making full use of the 3DS to introduce elements that are otherwise difficult to implement on the NDS. 3D environment, player customization, Pokemon-amie. All I can say is I don't agree that Gen V should be delayed until it can be released on the 3DS, nor do I think that Gen V should have bothered with trying to implement these cosmetic elements on the NDS as well, because the NDS simply cannot support them. Have you seen a NDS game that is fully 3D, like Metroid Prime: Hunters, or any racing games? The pixelated graphics can be quite a turn-off, if not for the fact that these games have very good gameplay.

Narrative-wise, I personally find Gen V's story to be most appealing. The player is always going to be the hero of destiny unless you enjoy walking around as a bystander, but the fact that you've been challenged by your arch-rival who's also recognized as a hero as well by a legendary counterpart, as well as the length and quality of the dialogue is a huge jump from its predecessors. Cookie cutter narrative would apply to Gen VI and IV and their catastrophic plotlines that has no way to progress and and no chance of success. At least Gen III's bad guys succeeded (but regretted later).

Had Gen V been released on the 3DS as you've say they should, then what would Gen VI's development focus be? The new Fairy type? Gen II added two new types as well, though both measures were taken partly because of rebalancing issue, which Game Freak still has room for improvement (and types alone can't solve the problem).
 

((JAWS))

Johto Boy
If I had to rank the gens from worst to best:

6. Gen IV: HGSS is one of my favorite Pokemon games. However DPPt. was a mess; slow, boring, and too many mountains. HGSS also was just a remake so it didn't bring anything new. Overall this Gen was kind of lame.

5. Gen V: Ehhh.... where do I start? Black and White 2 was an amazing game, PWT.. Wasn't enough to save a generation though. The first Black and White was incredibly boring. The new Pokemon designs were horrid. The only reason its ahead of Gen IV is because BW2 fixed everything wrong with BW1 but even that had issues. I would say its also ahead of Gen IV because the post game with PWT was incredible.

4. Gen I: Overall a great gen and the only reason it isn't ranked higher on this list is because its outdated and old and has remakes.

3. Gen II: An amazing generation, two regions, you could take on Red and the post-game was just so amazing. Again though it is now outdated.

2. Gen III: An amazing generation and is honestly the only generation that I can name with two good games. HGSS was great, but DPPpt.. ehh.. BW2 was great but I mean.. BW. Fire Red/Leaf Green is exactly what Kanto needed to help secure its spot as one of the most memorable regions. It gave Gen I another life with the same region. It was spectacular. Pokemon Sapphire/Ruby/Emerald were amazing as well and still are my favorite Pokemon games; Secret bases, every starter was heavenly, amazing region, cool friend/rival, funny rival teams.

1. Gen VI: Well.. the only new generation I can name that is honestly the best generation. With remakes of Hoenn coming in a few months and a great XY series intro into the new way of playing Pokemon, this generation has hit the nail on the head. The mega evolutions, the gritty rival team, the group of friends and the overall region was/still is so beautiful. Customization is a huge perk and wonder trade was an awesome addition. The fact that I could get a Kanto starter in almost less than an hour or two of gameplay was a huge plus. The overall experience just felt very alive. This is the only Gen with a set of games where you can actually interact with your rivals/friends and can explore with them/stop enemy teams its just really great. The only thing I am a little turned off about is that the lack of new Pokemon really kind of stinks. Honestly this generation introduced the most to Pokemon.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Gen V introduced triple and rotation battles, both which are now legitimate formats for battle tower-like features. Gen VI's Sky Battles is more of a gimmick to showcase its 3D graphics, while inverse battles merely requires the player to remember a different set of rules of engagement. Game Freak could make them part of battle towers, but one would limit the type of Pokemon that can participate, while the latter doesn't really add more strategic depth. Gen VI also introduced the mega evolutions, but from a competitive viewpoint I don't think it has achieved what it was trying to achieve, as I've explained in an earlier post.

New battle styles aren't really a major thing anymore, they're little more than occasional gimmicks that add little if anything to the gameplay. That's the thing, gameplay wise, 5th gen gave us little if anything signficant in the long run. Basically just hidden abilities and reusable TMs, that's pretty much it. Whereas 6th gen had many significant improvements that actually affected the gameplay, diagonal movement/Roller Skates, the PSS, Fairy type, Mega Evolutions, etc. 5th gen didn't introduce any new mechanics of that scale, they mainly just refined previous ideas and removed older ones. 5th gen wasn't even "three steps forward, two steps back". It was one step forward, two steps back.

Had Gen V been released on the 3DS as you've say they should, then what would Gen VI's development focus be? The new Fairy type? Gen II added two new types as well, though both measures were taken partly because of rebalancing issue, which Game Freak still has room for improvement (and types alone can't solve the problem).

I think if they had combined 5th gen's storyline with 6th gen's gameplay, it would've been a much better generation. It would've felt much more fresh and innovative despite all of the features that they had stripped away from 4th gen, the revolutions in storyline and gameplay would've made up for it in at least some way.

Fire Red/Leaf Green is exactly what Kanto needed to help secure its spot as one of the most memorable regions. It gave Gen I another life with the same region. It was spectacular.

Because FRLG just felt so lively with flat, generic environments, a horribly imbalanced regional dex (which also almost completely ignores the new types introduced since its creation), a minimalist storyline, and very little to do after you've finished exploring the Sevii Islands (which is the only real improvement FRLG made).

With remakes of Hoenn coming in a few months and a great XY series intro into the new way of playing Pokemon, this generation has hit the nail on the head.

It's a little early to say that ORAS have "hit the nail on the head". In fact, based on what we've seen of this game so far, I'd venture to say that it's going to do exactly the opposite.
 

Hidden Power

Well-Known Member
New battle styles aren't really a major thing anymore, they're little more than occasional gimmicks that add little if anything to the gameplay. That's the thing, gameplay wise, 5th gen gave us little if anything signficant in the long run. Basically just hidden abilities and reusable TMs, that's pretty much it. Whereas 6th gen had many significant improvements that actually affected the gameplay, diagonal movement/Roller Skates, the PSS, Fairy type, Mega Evolutions, etc. 5th gen didn't introduce any new mechanics of that scale, they mainly just refined previous ideas and removed older ones. 5th gen wasn't even "three steps forward, two steps back". It was one step forward, two steps back.

I think if they had combined 5th gen's storyline with 6th gen's gameplay, it would've been a much better generation. It would've felt much more fresh and innovative despite all of the features that they had stripped away from 4th gen, the revolutions in storyline and gameplay would've made up for it in at least some way.

...Any generation would be better if combined with Gen VI's gameplay, or rather its graphics, ORAS is going to prove that. The fact is that the 3DS is a much more powerful machine compared to its predecessor, which allows for certain gameplay elements that are otherwise difficult or even silly to implement on the NDS, like the diagonal movement and rollar skates (the NDS doesn't have a circle pad like the PSP of its era). And the reverse is true; much of Gen VI's grandeur would have been taken away if it was released on an older machine.

But storyline's a different thing. It forms the core of any RPG game, and is only limited by the creativity of the storyteller. I'm not even worried that Gen V missed out on the opportunities provided by the 3DS, because there's a possibility that it'll be remade on the next generation Nintendo handheld since it technically still follows the 2D gameplay like Gen I to IV with vast room for improvement (can't say the same for Gen VI though), and remakes can fix any technical and visual drawbacks. Even if it isn't going to be remade, it has already done a pretty good job with regards the most important element in my opinion.

Oh by the way, if you think having a box of dedicated 'move tutor' Pokemon, or having to re-breed another Pokemon all over again just to switch between two TM moves is a fun thing, by all means downplay the importance of reusable TMs. But I'll take it over other 'gameplay' elements of Gen VI, whether it's zig-zag movement in a Lamborghini, the new Light type or the Super-ultimate-fuse-with-your-Pokemon evolution.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
...Any generation would be better if combined with Gen VI's gameplay, or rather its graphics, ORAS is going to prove that. The fact is that the 3DS is a much more powerful machine compared to its predecessor, which allows for certain gameplay elements that are otherwise difficult or even silly to implement on the NDS, like the diagonal movement and rollar skates (the NDS doesn't have a circle pad like the PSP of its era). And the reverse is true; much of Gen VI's grandeur would have been taken away if it was released on an older machine.

That's exactly my point though. 5th gen suffered from not having a more powerful machine to pave the way for new gameplay improvements, and they had to go out of their way to make it feel like a new generation.

But storyline's a different thing. It forms the core of any RPG game, and is only limited by the creativity of the storyteller. I'm not even worried that Gen V missed out on the opportunities provided by the 3DS, because there's a possibility that it'll be remade on the next generation Nintendo handheld since it technically still follows the 2D gameplay like Gen I to IV with vast room for improvement (can't say the same for Gen VI though), and remakes can fix any technical and visual drawbacks. Even if it isn't going to be remade, it has already done a pretty good job with regards the most important element in my opinion.

Whether or not a 5th gen remake improves upon the originals is beside the point because the problem is they still ended up making a game with stripped down features and nothing truly new. 5th gen is already done and over with, and it sucked, there's nothing they can do about it now, even with a remake (that would only serve to affect the reputation of 8th/9th/10th/whatever gen releases them).

Oh by the way, if you think having a box of dedicated 'move tutor' Pokemon, or having to re-breed another Pokemon all over again just to switch between two TM moves is a fun thing, by all means downplay the importance of reusable TMs. But I'll take it over other 'gameplay' elements of Gen VI, whether it's zig-zag movement in a Lamborghini, the new Light type or the Super-ultimate-fuse-with-your-Pokemon evolution.

Except reusable TM's aren't strictly a new feature, you could still teach TMs to any Pokemon that could learn them before, they just removed the limit on how many times you could teach them. That's not a new feature like most of 6th gen's improvements, it's a refinement of an existing feature.
 

Hidden Power

Well-Known Member
That's exactly my point though. 5th gen suffered from not having a more powerful machine to pave the way for new gameplay improvements, and they had to go out of their way to make it feel like a new generation.

Continuing to harp on the misgivings of past generations isn't going to change the fact that those games had improved something in one way or another when viewed from the point of a old player, and are all great 'first games' for any new player. Especially about how Gen V should be delayed for the 3DS, if it were you'll have even lesser things to talk about for Gen VI unless you're proposing that it's delayed to the next gen console as well, which would be just silly.

Whether or not a 5th gen remake improves upon the originals is beside the point because the problem is they still ended up making a game with stripped down features and nothing truly new. 5th gen is already done and over with, and it sucked, there's nothing they can do about it now, even with a remake (that would only serve to affect the reputation of 8th/9th/10th/whatever gen releases them).

Pretty much the same attitude as when RSE were released. Great sales, but always compared to GSC. Again, you can debate about how much Gen III added versus how much they removed, but I'm calling dibs on people who's going to scream for "Gen V remake! Best game ever!" years from now.

Except reusable TM's aren't strictly a new feature, you could still teach TMs to any Pokemon that could learn them before, they just removed the limit on how many times you could teach them. That's not a new feature like most of 6th gen's improvements, it's a refinement of an existing feature.

I don't think there's anything Gen VI added that's strictly a new feature either, if I want to argue from a technical point of view.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Continuing to harp on the misgivings of past generations isn't going to change the fact that those games had improved something in one way or another when viewed from the point of a old player, and are all great 'first games' for any new player. Especially about how Gen V should be delayed for the 3DS, if it were you'll have even lesser things to talk about for Gen VI unless you're proposing that it's delayed to the next gen console as well, which would be just silly.

Improvements are expected in a new generation, if the games are getting worse, then it's perfectly reasonable to complain. And 5th gen did get worse overall, the game regressed in pretty much every aspect except story.

Pretty much the same attitude as when RSE were released. Great sales, but always compared to GSC. Again, you can debate about how much Gen III added versus how much they removed, but I'm calling dibs on people who's going to scream for "Gen V remake! Best game ever!" years from now.

3rd gen only really had two problems: the lack of a day/night system and no backwards compatibility. The day/night feature wasn't a big deal to begin with (plus you still had a clock), it was just a capture gimmick that really didn't add much. As for the backwards compatibility, people stopped caring as the series dragged on, they were able to recapture all of their favorites and built up an even bigger collection of Pokes than the one they left behind. Everything else they removed from 2nd gen was a regional gimmick that they usually ended up replacing. Apricorn Poke Balls were replaced by new Hoenn balls, many of which either functioned similarly or were much more useful. Pokegear was replaced by the Pokenav, and the only thing you really lost was the radio which was another pointless gimmick. And then they actually added features like Contests and Secret Bases as well as new battle mechanics such as Natures and Abilities.

5th gen was much, much worse in this regard. They removed actual gameplay functionality and added nothing in its place. You couldn't rematch trainers except through gimmicky battling facilities. You couldn't plant berries except through an online gimmick that closed down at the end of the generation. The regional gadget couldn't use all of the fun apps that the Pokegear, Pokenav, and Poketch had and was nearly useless unless you used local multiplayer a lot. It was the first game in the series where there was less you could do than the last game, a definite regression for the series.

I don't think there's anything Gen VI added that's strictly a new feature either, if I want to argue from a technical point of view.

The PSS created a new online environment where you could communicate with hundreds of trainers at the push of a button. Fairy type affected the type chart and how you construct your team, and changed the competitive usefulness of various Pokemon. Diagonal movement allows you to move through the overworld you couldn't before and create area layouts that couldn't be done before. Mega Evolutions was a completely new type of evolution which also affected Pokemon's competitive viability.

Also, regardless of whether you think reusable TMs is a huge change or not, it's one new feature vs. 4 or 5 in XY. So XY improved much, much more than 5th gen.
 

((JAWS))

Johto Boy
Come on. They all can't be bad.

No you are right not all of them were. Off the top of my head Excadrill, Carracosta, Archeops, and Haxorus were all great designs. I'm sure there are others. I just wasn't impressed with this Gen's designs as much as I was with previous gens.


Because FRLG just felt so lively with flat, generic environments, a horribly imbalanced regional dex (which also almost completely ignores the new types introduced since its creation), a minimalist storyline, and very little to do after you've finished exploring the Sevii Islands (which is the only real improvement FRLG made).

It's a little early to say that ORAS have "hit the nail on the head". In fact, based on what we've seen of this game so far, I'd venture to say that it's going to do exactly the opposite.

In response to Bolt, I believe Pokemon ORAS is going to be great. To back this up:

1. All three mega evolutions for all three starters look incredible design wise and move/ability wise. Sceptile turns into a grass/dragon and has Lightning Rod which is pretty cool and unique. Mega Blaziken I mean... this one is self explanatory. Mega Swampert gets Swift Swim and raised attack stats.

2. Secret bases with online compatibility across the world sounds amazing. I think most fans look forward to this.

3. The mega evolutions for Kyogre and Groudon look spectacular.

4. The region looks alive and beautiful especially on a 3DS.

In reply to your FRLG comment, FRLG wasn't meant to innovate. The whole point of the remake was to introduce newer fans to an older Gen through better graphics and improved game play. At the time Gen FRLG was a great game. Nowadays it does get outclassed by quite a few games however RSE really helps the Gen out. Plus FRLG was a really fun game despite a "minimalist storyline." If anything was meant to innovate and add new features to this Gen it was obviously Ruby and Sapphire. And on top of that Emerald introduced what a real post-game should be like.

Improvements are expected in a new generation, if the games are getting worse, then it's perfectly reasonable to complain. And 5th gen did get worse overall, the game regressed in pretty much every aspect except story.

I completely agree with this. Gen V got worse. In designs especially.
 
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Hidden Power

Well-Known Member
Improvements are expected in a new generation, if the games are getting worse, then it's perfectly reasonable to complain. And 5th gen did get worse overall, the game regressed in pretty much every aspect except story.

Gameplay flaws are rectifiable; storyline aren't, even with remakes. FRLG pretty much demonstrated that.

3rd gen only really had two problems: the lack of a day/night system and no backwards compatibility. The day/night feature wasn't a big deal to begin with (plus you still had a clock), it was just a capture gimmick that really didn't add much.

Also known as the entire 3D graphics of Gen VI. Both does nothing practically, but definitely enhance gameplay experience. In fact, Day/night feature isn't just a gimmick; it mimics real world ecosystem where certain creatures are nocturnal in nature. Gen IV's re-addition of this cosmetic feature was widely celebrated, and Gen V added visible seasonal changes in to the environment in addition as well. The only problem was that it's not eye-catching enough with the graphics of the NDS.

As for the backwards compatibility, people stopped caring as the series dragged on, they were able to recapture all of their favorites and built up an even bigger collection of Pokes than the one they left behind. Everything else they removed from 2nd gen was a regional gimmick that they usually ended up replacing. Apricorn Poke Balls were replaced by new Hoenn balls, many of which either functioned similarly or were much more useful. Pokegear was replaced by the Pokenav, and the only thing you really lost was the radio which was another pointless gimmick. And then they actually added features like Contests and Secret Bases as well as new battle mechanics such as Natures and Abilities.

Yet, when BW, a game with backward compatibility, wifi trading, and post-E4 opportunity to recapture another 100+ old Pokemon for the 5th time just to re-complete your dex started the players with 153 new Pokemon, people whine like there's no tomorrow. There was legitimate reason to complain about RS's lack of old Pokemon back then when there was no FRLG in sight, but not with BW when DPPt is just around the corner.

And when B2W2 'fixed' the issue people continue to use BW an excuse to shoot the generation down even though it's the '3rd game' that usually defines the generation.

5th gen was much, much worse in this regard. They removed actual gameplay functionality and added nothing in its place. You couldn't rematch trainers except through gimmicky battling facilities.

Also known as the Battle Chateau in Gen VI.

You couldn't plant berries except through an online gimmick that closed down at the end of the generation.

Agreed.

The regional gadget couldn't use all of the fun apps that the Pokegear, Pokenav, and Poketch had and was nearly useless unless you used local multiplayer a lot. It was the first game in the series where there was less you could do than the last game, a definite regression for the series.

The Pokegear and its incarnations were never able to replicate the usefulness of the apps that we know of on smartphones. At best, they can only be an augmentation to certain game features. For example, trainer phone calls for items and re-battles in Gen II, and re-battles alone with the PokeNav were eventually obsolete when there's a more straightforward, abelt rather boring means of doing so in Gen V and VI. Gen IV had a wide array of apps that honestly had little use, or displays information that were eventually incorporated within the game itself.

Have you even gone through the list of apps on GenIV's Poketech? Analog clock, digital clocks, kitchen timer, color changer, coin toss? ... I don't even put such things on my smartphone. Not to mention that they intentionally made it look like graphics from the age of tamagotchi when they have absolutely no reason to do so.

The PSS created a new online environment where you could communicate with hundreds of trainers at the push of a button.

Again, something that's limited by hardware, and Nitendo's own wifi service. The fact that Nintendo Wifi Communication couldn't support the 3DS and had to be closed down to make way for the Nintendo Network pretty much tells you that there is a gap between the two devices.

Fairy type affected the type chart and how you construct your team, and changed the competitive usefulness of various Pokemon.

The direct consequence of a new type addition is of course a change in the rules of engagement; it's not as if we've never experience it before. Of course, the types that have been added so far were able to fit in well with the rest, but let's not forget that such additions were as much of a necessity as they were a 'new feature' as Game Freak realize on two occasions the flaws that they've committed. In Gen I, Fighting type had little offensive use, being super effective to 3 types, of which Ice and Rock have a myriad of weaknesses anyway and Normal isn't capable of super effective damage or resistance, while Psychic was just plain broken. By Gen V, Dragon type was overly buffed by virtue of stats inflation thanks to Game Freak's obsession with creating tons of Dragon legendaries or pseudo-legendaries with crazy-high BSTs.

Diagonal movement allows you to move through the overworld you couldn't before and create area layouts that couldn't be done before.

If a game's movement uses vertical and horizontal movements, then it's only natural that the game map designer keeps this in mind and not create maps that hinders such movements. Like-wise, XY keeps in mind that the game is still based on grid movement and restricts the layout of its path/building layout and size to that. What's so unnatural about a game on an old system doing what it's supposed to do?

Mega Evolutions was a completely new type of evolution which also affected Pokemon's competitive viability.

Refer to the second part of this post for the reality of Mega evolutions. Guess where Mega Banette and Mega Abomasnow, part of the first batch of Mega evolution is standing right now? RU tier.

Also, regardless of whether you think reusable TMs is a huge change or not, it's one new feature vs. 4 or 5 in XY. So XY improved much, much more than 5th gen.

Are we just going by the quantity of features vs quality right here?

If you're still inclined that Gen V is 'bad' for being a DS game and could have done more on the 3DS, we happen to be in time for an old Gen III game that is slated for a re-release on the 3DS too. Go ahead and compare the gameplay of RS versus ORAS when it arrives and see how much of difference in gameplay it makes. We'll never know how much of a difference Gen V and VI would have if they're both were released on the 3DS, but you could compare ORAS and XY to see how much of an edge XY has over it.

"It's a little early to say that ORAS have "hit the nail on the head". In fact, based on what we've seen of this game so far, I'd venture to say that it's going to do exactly the opposite."--> I wonder why you would say that. There you are talking about Gen V's flaws and Gen VI's improvement, mostly via its hardware advantage, and when you see the trailer of a Gen III game re-released on that same hardware with all the cosmetic improvement your first impression wasn't that of amazement?
 
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Nightlingbolt

AKA Nightlingbolt
Each generation has its perks. Each generation has its flaws. But at the end of the day, can we say with any sort of legitimacy that there was ever a "bad" generation? No. "Subpar?" "Disappointing?" Okay, fine. But "bad?" No. Just no.

That being said, the worst generation for me has to be Johto. That level curve was absolutely atrocious.
 

((JAWS))

Johto Boy
Gimmicky battle facilities? You could take on every world champion and every gym leader in BW2. Thats kind of cool. Also BW2 is one of my favorites, still though the Gen overall wasn't that great.

Each generation has its perks. Each generation has its flaws. But at the end of the day, can we say with any sort of legitimacy that there was ever a "bad" generation? No. "Subpar?" "Disappointing?" Okay, fine. But "bad?" No. Just no.

That being said, the worst generation for me has to be Johto. That level curve was absolutely atrocious.

I can assure you that that a generation can be bad. Look at Generation IV and V for proof of that. Also whats bad about Johto? It had the longest Post-Game besides BW2, you could take on Red, get the original starters and depending on what Gen you played you could rematch Gym leaders.

A generation is based on public reception and popularity. Popularity for Gen III, Gen II, Gen IV are justified which is why you see in the poll that Gens are the lowest ranked in terms of being the worst. Which makes them the best.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
In response to Bolt, I believe Pokemon ORAS is going to be great. To back this up:

1. All three mega evolutions for all three starters look incredible design wise and move/ability wise. Sceptile turns into a grass/dragon and has Lightning Rod which is pretty cool and unique. Mega Blaziken I mean... this one is self explanatory. Mega Swampert gets Swift Swim and raised attack stats.

2. Secret bases with online compatibility across the world sounds amazing. I think most fans look forward to this.

3. The mega evolutions for Kyogre and Groudon look spectacular.

4. The region looks alive and beautiful especially on a 3DS.

In reply to your FRLG comment, FRLG wasn't meant to innovate. The whole point of the remake was to introduce newer fans to an older Gen through better graphics and improved game play. At the time Gen FRLG was a great game. Nowadays it does get outclassed by quite a few games however RSE really helps the Gen out. Plus FRLG was a really fun game despite a "minimalist storyline." If anything was meant to innovate and add new features to this Gen it was obviously Ruby and Sapphire. And on top of that Emerald introduced what a real post-game should be like.

That's too bad that Game Freak decides to take that approach, it only serves to show the games' age. They don't need to innovate anything, but blatantly ignoring the advancements that new generations have added only serves to highlight their flaws.

Gameplay flaws are rectifiable; storyline aren't, even with remakes. FRLG pretty much demonstrated that.

Not unless you can magically retcon the flaws of the originals.

Also, all FRLG proved is that Game Freak is perfectly happy to abuse nostalgia to make a quick buck.

Yet, when BW, a game with backward compatibility, wifi trading, and post-E4 opportunity to recapture another 100+ old Pokemon for the 5th time just to re-complete your dex started the players with 153 new Pokemon, people whine like there's no tomorrow. There was legitimate reason to complain about RS's lack of old Pokemon back then when there was no FRLG in sight, but not with BW when DPPt is just around the corner.

Except you couldn't transfer until you beat the Elite 4 anyway, so unless you know someone who's already beat the game, you're out of luck. It's exactly the same problem as Challenge Mode in BW2, you technically could use old Pokemon if you wanted to, but because you have to go out of your way to do so, it's almost as if you couldn't do it at all.

And when B2W2 'fixed' the issue people continue to use BW an excuse to shoot the generation down even though it's the '3rd game' that usually defines the generation.

Also known as the Battle Chateau in Gen VI.

Significantly less convenient than using the Phone, Trainer's Eyes, or Vs. Seeker.

The Pokegear and its incarnations were never able to replicate the usefulness of the apps that we know of on smartphones. At best, they can only be an augmentation to certain game features.

Um... what? Things like clocks and region maps aren't useful? There's plenty of useful features in the original apps, and there's several others they could add as well (like TV or a weather tracker). I wouldn't have minded if they had trimmed some of the useless ones, but getting rid of them completely was a stupid idea.

For example, trainer phone calls for items and re-battles in Gen II, and re-battles alone with the PokeNav were eventually obsolete when there's a more straightforward, abelt rather boring means of doing so in Gen V and VI. Gen IV had a wide array of apps that honestly had little use, or displays information that were eventually incorporated within the game itself.

No, the Phone, Trainer's Eyes, and Vs. Seeker aren't obsolete at all, in fact they're more useful than another other rematch system that 5th and 6th gen **** out. You could rematch dozens of trainers anywhere (and in the Vs. Seeker's case, anytime). No stupid gimmicks, no daily limits, just regular trainers in the overworld that you can battle normally.

Again, something that's limited by hardware, and Nitendo's own wifi service. The fact that Nintendo Wifi Communication couldn't support the 3DS and had to be closed down to make way for the Nintendo Network pretty much tells you that there is a gap between the two devices.

Which is exactly why 5th gen should've been on the 3DS, the lack of new hardware to work with limited what kinds of advancements they could make in the new generation, and combined with the stripping down of useful features from 4th gen, it was an overall regression for the series.

The direct consequence of a new type addition is of course a change in the rules of engagement; it's not as if we've never experience it before. Of course, the types that have been added so far were able to fit in well with the rest, but let's not forget that such additions were as much of a necessity as they were a 'new feature' as Game Freak realize on two occasions the flaws that they've committed. In Gen I, Fighting type had little offensive use, being super effective to 3 types, of which Ice and Rock have a myriad of weaknesses anyway and Normal isn't capable of super effective damage or resistance, while Psychic was just plain broken. By Gen V, Dragon type was overly buffed by virtue of stats inflation thanks to Game Freak's obsession with creating tons of Dragon legendaries or pseudo-legendaries with crazy-high BSTs.

It doesn't really matter that it was a necessary change. The fact of the matter is that it was introduced in 6th gen, and its introduction was a significant improvement for the series.

If a game's movement uses vertical and horizontal movements, then it's only natural that the game map designer keeps this in mind and not create maps that hinders such movements. Like-wise, XY keeps in mind that the game is still based on grid movement and restricts the layout of its path/building layout and size to that. What's so unnatural about a game on an old system doing what it's supposed to do?

There's nothing wrong with past gens using grid based movement. The point was that diagonal movement opens up the potential for new styles of level design. It's not that grid free movement is bad per se, but diagonal movement allows you to do more. But you do make a good point that those features are being underutilized, and that is a pretty bad thing because it makes the diagonal movement and Roller Skates feel like a waste (although they are somewhat convenient for movement).

Are we just going by the quantity of features vs quality right here?

Doesn't matter, because 6th gen has them beat on both.

If you're still inclined that Gen V is 'bad' for being a DS game and could have done more on the 3DS, we happen to be in time for an old Gen III game that is slated for a re-release on the 3DS too. Go ahead and compare the gameplay of RS versus ORAS when it arrives and see how much of difference in gameplay it makes. We'll never know how much of a difference Gen V and VI would have if they're both were released on the 3DS, but you could compare ORAS and XY to see how much of an edge XY has over it.

It won't matter though, because that doesn't magically erase the mistakes of the originals. They could make the 5th gen remakes the best games of all time, it still won't make the originals any better.

"It's a little early to say that ORAS have "hit the nail on the head". In fact, based on what we've seen of this game so far, I'd venture to say that it's going to do exactly the opposite."--> I wonder why you would say that. There you are talking about Gen V's flaws and Gen VI's improvement, mostly via its hardware advantage, and when you see the trailer of a Gen III game re-released on that same hardware with all the cosmetic improvement your first impression wasn't that of amazement?

Because for all of the hardware advances it's making, it's ignoring even more basic flaws of the originals like imbalances in the regional dex, lack of post game areas (and while the post game could still be substantial with other features, the lack of places to explore will definitely hurt it like it did in XY). They're not going through and utilizing 6th gen improvements to improve upon the original experience. They're basically just recreating the game as faithfully as they can and throwing in a few Megas for fanservice. It just doesn't look like it's being designed with a lot of care, they're treating the game as a cash cow and nothing more.

Gimmicky battle facilities? You could take on every world champion and every gym leader in BW2. Thats kind of cool. Also BW2 is one of my favorites, still though the Gen overall wasn't that great.

You don't get EXP in the PWT though. The entire argument is about ease of training, not how fun the battles are.

A generation is based on public reception and popularity. Popularity for Gen III, Gen II, Gen IV are justified which is why you see in the poll that Gens are the lowest ranked in terms of being the worst. Which makes them the best.

The lowest voted gens in this post aren't necessarily the best, it just means that most people think there's another gen that's worse.
 
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