I'm very well aware of the development of the early titles, and Game Freak having limitations doesn't really make the game any more fun or take away the flaws.
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Your Least Favorite Gen?
- Thread starter scruffythedeadwaffle
- Start date
- Status
I'm very well aware of the development of the early titles, and Game Freak having limitations doesn't really make the game any more fun or take away the flaws.
devilmonkey
ROWROWFightDaPOWAH
I absolutely HATED Gen 4. I fell out of Pokemon for a while because of Platinum, hardly enjoyed B/W in the aftermath (despite B/W being great games, IMO) But there was just something about Gen 4...I think the magic just fell away. Like, Gen 1 was amazing because it was the first. It introduced the idea of Pokemon and off we went running with it. Gen 2 was like finding that hidden Christmas gift behind the tree: you didn't know it was coming, and it did nothing but add more fun to the series. Gen 3 was good, but now the feeling set in that "wow, okay, they're going to keep doing this." By the time Gen 4 came out, a lot of the things that made Pokemon fun as a kid were lost. The designs were getting crazier (I used to be able to draw every Pokemon 1-252, but how do you draw a friggin Dialga?) and the story convoluted. The fact that the plot was wash-and-repeat became apparent, even to my young self, and I just looked at it like that next unwanted rendition of the Leprechan franchise.
Thank God for Gen 6, though. It was like a love letter to the long-time fans. Improved breeding mechanics, modified capture mechanics (I didn't know how much I loved critical capture until trying to capture Mewtwo while replaying HG), access to most Pokemon's Hidden Abilities thereby giving long-dead Pokemon competitive viability, wow.
Thank God for Gen 6, though. It was like a love letter to the long-time fans. Improved breeding mechanics, modified capture mechanics (I didn't know how much I loved critical capture until trying to capture Mewtwo while replaying HG), access to most Pokemon's Hidden Abilities thereby giving long-dead Pokemon competitive viability, wow.
Hidden Power
Well-Known Member
No you're not.
The Japanese Red and Green and special edition Blue was released in 1996, whereas Japanese Yellow was only out 2.5 years later at a time originally intended for the release of Gold and Silver. Your expectation that Red and Green (or rather, the translated Red and Blue) should have been as good as Yellow just because they're 'on the same console' doesn't make sense. If an app developer with no prior fame produced a brand new app under tight constraints, which then enjoyed 2.5 years of vast popularity and financial success, I would expect the next installment/special edition to be better. Same platform or otherwise.
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Ironically enough, Yellow is much worse than Red and Blue in everything but the sprites. In my opinion
Hidden Power
Well-Known Member
There are people who actually prefer Red and Blue's sprite, so uh... it's a matter of perspective. Personally I started with Yellow, not Red and Blue. Enjoyed the (in my opinion) improved sprites, never had the issue of choosing starters, never did the missingno cheat before, couldn't own a Raichu, or any of the Red and Blue's version exclusive, and didn't get to compare with the earlier two games either.
I'm really torn. It's difficult for me to say that any one generation is definitely "the worst".
Gen 5 had the worst region design imo but the pokemon it inroduced and the story it told were great though the balance of these two is a little skewed. Black and White introduced so many new pokemon(which isn't a bad thing) and didn't ease players in at all with the inclusion of older pokemon in the dex, giving players(I should probably just say 'me') a bit of a jarring transition. This was fixed a bit in Black 2 and White 2 but is still present in the first games. The story was the same way and, while it was better than other tales told in the series, it did begun to cut in on the gameplay experience. The whole 'chosen one' motif is never something I thought would work very well with pokemon and in this instance it didn't. Being told that you were the one to command the dragon and seemingly take a hard stance on philosophical issues such as truth vs. ideals felt very limiting to the player's narrative freedom. What if I don't want to fulfill this recurrence of history while I'm taking down Plasma? Maybe I'm just making hyperbole on some things that have been inherent in much of the series...
Gen 6 introduced the fewest number of new 'mon to date. While this doesn't seem to be that much of a problem at first glance, there are 455 Pokémon in the Kalos Pokédex with 70 of those being unique to the region. That means only 15.4% of the Pokémon in Kalos are new, that's pitiful. Instead of making the region feel like a grand new experience with a band of new comers taking center stage it felt like more of a rehashing of older generations with a light garnish of new faces. Honestly, I prefer Black and White's influx of naiscent luster to X and Y's trickle, although neither are truly good. Another point is the fact that not many of the things in Kalos felt like you truly earned them. Just by using the mechanics the game presents to you and following the storyline, without even trying to grind your team to superiority, you will easily sweep the game without effort. The Exp. All and Pokémon Amie will make sure of that(with no Exp. Share alternative to the EXP. All, I might add). Granted, one is able to forego these features. However, the amount of things given to you seems arbitrary and is only worsened by these features. Here you go, two starter Pokémon for no reason, a Key Stone and a Lucario holding a Lucarionite to go with it. Bought the game in it's first couple of months after release like so many did? Have a Blaziken with its mega stone... Let the players earn things that feel like they should be rewards instead of things taken for granted, a certain level of accomplishment should be felt obtaining things like this and they shouldn't just be hints that are given out 'willy nilly' to the player as they go through the usual storyline romp, this causes them to lack a sense of value unlike rewards in other titles such as the Johto starters in Emerald's post game.
The antagonistic team in X and Y honestly wasn't terrible. They felt a bit more like Team Rocket... only a bit worse. With team rocket we knew what their goal was, they wanted to exploit Pokémon to gain wealth and we as the players wanted to stop them because we(presumably) cared for Pokémon. For the majority of the game my encounters with Team Flare left me wondering why I was fighting them until late in the game it was revealed that "Surprise! We're going to kill everyone who doesn't have our sense of style!" and that was the only moment when fighting against the team was actually compelling. Granted, they do have the most interesting looking leader. Lysandre's up there with Archie.
Lastly, the Kalos region, for all it's relatively interesting region design, gives players little reason to travel around it after the 'main game' is over. Kiloude, Lumiose, and the Day Care are the only places you'll really need to be visiting after you become champion, making the post game relatively lifeless. Compare this to DPPt or RSE in which players were traveling to multiple locations after their league victory, chasing down secret areas, roaming or secret Legendaries, and rare items or Pokémon. Or compare it to GS and their remakes in which players are given what is essentially an additional league challenge to go through with Red's battle atop Mt.Silver being a cherry on top(though some would criticize the levels of the Kanto pokemon and the general lack of much other than the gyms, which is an issue).
All in all, I can't really say that one is the worst but after writing this, Gen6 isn't very high on my list. Which is why I'm hoping they'll do something g unexpected with it's third version or sequel(s) and introduce more new Alos Pokémon and more interesting things to do and a better storyline.
Gen 5 had the worst region design imo but the pokemon it inroduced and the story it told were great though the balance of these two is a little skewed. Black and White introduced so many new pokemon(which isn't a bad thing) and didn't ease players in at all with the inclusion of older pokemon in the dex, giving players(I should probably just say 'me') a bit of a jarring transition. This was fixed a bit in Black 2 and White 2 but is still present in the first games. The story was the same way and, while it was better than other tales told in the series, it did begun to cut in on the gameplay experience. The whole 'chosen one' motif is never something I thought would work very well with pokemon and in this instance it didn't. Being told that you were the one to command the dragon and seemingly take a hard stance on philosophical issues such as truth vs. ideals felt very limiting to the player's narrative freedom. What if I don't want to fulfill this recurrence of history while I'm taking down Plasma? Maybe I'm just making hyperbole on some things that have been inherent in much of the series...
Gen 6 introduced the fewest number of new 'mon to date. While this doesn't seem to be that much of a problem at first glance, there are 455 Pokémon in the Kalos Pokédex with 70 of those being unique to the region. That means only 15.4% of the Pokémon in Kalos are new, that's pitiful. Instead of making the region feel like a grand new experience with a band of new comers taking center stage it felt like more of a rehashing of older generations with a light garnish of new faces. Honestly, I prefer Black and White's influx of naiscent luster to X and Y's trickle, although neither are truly good. Another point is the fact that not many of the things in Kalos felt like you truly earned them. Just by using the mechanics the game presents to you and following the storyline, without even trying to grind your team to superiority, you will easily sweep the game without effort. The Exp. All and Pokémon Amie will make sure of that(with no Exp. Share alternative to the EXP. All, I might add). Granted, one is able to forego these features. However, the amount of things given to you seems arbitrary and is only worsened by these features. Here you go, two starter Pokémon for no reason, a Key Stone and a Lucario holding a Lucarionite to go with it. Bought the game in it's first couple of months after release like so many did? Have a Blaziken with its mega stone... Let the players earn things that feel like they should be rewards instead of things taken for granted, a certain level of accomplishment should be felt obtaining things like this and they shouldn't just be hints that are given out 'willy nilly' to the player as they go through the usual storyline romp, this causes them to lack a sense of value unlike rewards in other titles such as the Johto starters in Emerald's post game.
The antagonistic team in X and Y honestly wasn't terrible. They felt a bit more like Team Rocket... only a bit worse. With team rocket we knew what their goal was, they wanted to exploit Pokémon to gain wealth and we as the players wanted to stop them because we(presumably) cared for Pokémon. For the majority of the game my encounters with Team Flare left me wondering why I was fighting them until late in the game it was revealed that "Surprise! We're going to kill everyone who doesn't have our sense of style!" and that was the only moment when fighting against the team was actually compelling. Granted, they do have the most interesting looking leader. Lysandre's up there with Archie.
Lastly, the Kalos region, for all it's relatively interesting region design, gives players little reason to travel around it after the 'main game' is over. Kiloude, Lumiose, and the Day Care are the only places you'll really need to be visiting after you become champion, making the post game relatively lifeless. Compare this to DPPt or RSE in which players were traveling to multiple locations after their league victory, chasing down secret areas, roaming or secret Legendaries, and rare items or Pokémon. Or compare it to GS and their remakes in which players are given what is essentially an additional league challenge to go through with Red's battle atop Mt.Silver being a cherry on top(though some would criticize the levels of the Kanto pokemon and the general lack of much other than the gyms, which is an issue).
All in all, I can't really say that one is the worst but after writing this, Gen6 isn't very high on my list. Which is why I'm hoping they'll do something g unexpected with it's third version or sequel(s) and introduce more new Alos Pokémon and more interesting things to do and a better storyline.
ilovemyumbreon
Holding a Moon Shard
I agree with the part that you don't have to earn anything, but the lack of new Pokémon in Gen VI made a lot of sense to me. Not one of the new Pokémon this generation felt redundant or (overly) like a novelty. The large Pokédex felt like there were many new Pokémon (At least to me) because of the new graphics, retyping, and wide move pools. Plus with such a large regional dex there were Pokémon that were in the same region for the first time. Plus you don't include megas as new Pokémon (which I understand that some people don't), but there is a lot of new life in Gen VI. Though there is not a lot of post game, the existing game maximizes on everything it has to offer from graphics (like watch the water or sky on Route 7), the new Pokémon and Megas, and the mechanics. It's always possible to ask for more, but I will never be disappointed in XY, but I was with BW/B2W2.
Well, people giving you overpowered gift pokemon isn't anything new.
You get Lapras, a free shiny from the Odd Egg, Beldum, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee, Eevee, Extremespeed Dratini, Porygon and Zorua.
Torchic was the event because the rooster is France's national animal.
Bolt the Cat
Bringing the Thunder
TBH, I don't think knowing Team Rocket's goal really made me care as much about stopping them, because their goals weren't all that threatening to begin with, or at least not compared to the other evil teams. They were just taking over areas just for the sake of being bad guys, there's no depth to their motives and actions, you're just there to stop them because you're good and they're bad. It almost feels like a chore if you think about it.
But I agree with your point otherwise.
RSE doesn't give the players much more to do in post game than XY. Even in Emerald, it's just find a few legendaries, go to the Battle Frontier, catch new Pokemon in the Safari Zone's extension, and get the other fossil in Desert Underpass. That's really not much either. It's FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 that have the best post games.
Eh, depends what point you define as being the end of the game. Personally, I wouldn't consider Kanto post game, as it was still part of the badge quest. And there was absolutely nothing to do after you beat Red in the original GSC, so I'd say that was a minimal post game as well. Also, even if you do include Kanto, there's really not much you can do there aside from explore new areas and catch some Pokemon that you couldn't in Johto. The storyline was virtually nonexistent at that point and there weren't a whole lot of gameplay features.
I wouldn't call many of those "overpowered", not in the same sense as being given a free Mega Lucario. Even though there were a ton of gift Pokemon and they had the potential to become great Pokemon, you still had to train them up and evolve them to realize that potential yourself. It's not the same thing as being given a FE behemoth that can steamroll everything.
Also, the Odd Egg wasn't a guaranteed shiny, it was only like, a 50% chance or something. I've never gotten a shiny out of it in all of the times I've played Crystal.
Lulu_used_SunnyDay
Petal Blizzard
I originally voted for gen 2, but now I wish I could change that vote to Gen 6. Literally the only good thing is the 3D. All the rest is heavily below the series's average.
Worst region. Worst soundtrack (like seriously, what the freck were they actually thinking with this one idk...). Only one truly memorable location (Laverre). The evil team was a bit of a mess, like they weren't completely sure what to do with it. Even the damn camera managed to **** up pretty annoyingly a couple times. Eh.
I feel like I should mention the fact that I never consider the pokemon themselves when judging a generation, because each and every one has its fair share of awesome ones.
Worst region. Worst soundtrack (like seriously, what the freck were they actually thinking with this one idk...). Only one truly memorable location (Laverre). The evil team was a bit of a mess, like they weren't completely sure what to do with it. Even the damn camera managed to **** up pretty annoyingly a couple times. Eh.
I feel like I should mention the fact that I never consider the pokemon themselves when judging a generation, because each and every one has its fair share of awesome ones.
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Hidden Power
Well-Known Member
I've never understood the praises Gen VI get when it comes to two factors: graphics and regional dex. Mega evolution is a mix-bag for me.
Was the graphics great? Yes, in comparison to previous generations. But considering that 3DS has the capability to support high-end graphics, it's only natural that Game Freak take advantage of its graphics engine; the progression is inevitable. I mean, have you even seen the graphics of Monster Hunter 4, a franchise previously only the Sony's PS3 and PSP? Consoles from Nintendo back then can never match up in the graphics department compared to Sony's console in the same era, but the 3DS is now at least as good as the latest PSP. Given such a powerhouse, Game Freak is just going to receive some serious criticism had it stuck to the same 2D graphics littered with bits of '3D' here and there.
Regional dex, aka. how large a portion of old Pokemon to squeeze into the new game. You have wifi trading capabilities, a new batch of Pokemon, along with Game Freak's guarantee that every Pokemon barring event legendaries would be made available in one way or another for players to 'catch 'em all', and you're concerned with whether you can catch and raise your own Dragonite for the 6th time? If the fans wish for it, Game Freak can by all means repeatedly feed their desire, but I don't consider it a game-changing factor.
As for mega-evolution, I wasn't keen on the idea during its initial introduction, and more than half a year later I would say that the best decision Game Freak made was to keep it temporary. For one thing, their selection criteria seems randomized despite basing it off certain factors. For another, what they attempted to achieve with mega evolution did not actually materialize exactly the way they want it to, mainly due to their lack of understanding of competitive battling.
Here's what Junichi Masuda thought would happen with mega evolution, based on the article here:
Here's what actually happening, based on Smogon's usage stats:
If the Pokemon was a OU powerhouse to begin with, there's more 'strategic depth' since it does well with a variety of items apart of megastones:
Scizorite 52.063%
Tyranitarite 28.738%
Garchompite 20.126%
But if you have a Pokemon that's abysmal, and given a mega evolution, practically everyone abuses it:
Charizardite X 48.985%
Charizardite Y 48.651%
Venusaurite 83.680%
Mawilite 99.125%
Pinsirite 98.775%
Instead of one Pokemon with anywhere from 2 to 4 possible held item options playing in the lower tiers, you see them promoted to higher tiers with a more rigid build because there's simply no reason not to use megastones for them.
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And this is another reason why I believe that "lower tier" FE Pokémon should be given the majority of Mega Evolutions as opposed to their high tiered peers, they could certainly use the aid more than OU staples. I actually think this would be the be possible use of the mechanic, to bring up most Pokémon into the same ballpark of competitive viability, allowing people to actually use their favorites with "the best of them" at least somewhat effectively.
ilovemyumbreon
Holding a Moon Shard
"Progression is inevitable" is not a valid dismissal of Gen VI, Gen V (or a good part of it) existed at the same time as the 3DS, but did not take advantage of the new system. A lot of the development of the game had to be put into developing models for people, Pokémon, buildings and landscapes. Just because a change was inevitable doesn't mean that we should take it for granted.
The Regional Pokédex is something that the developers continue to use and as far as Regional Dexes go, I believe that Gen VI has the most diverse and numerically the most extensive. The idea that it is outdated with the GTS is not something you should hold against Gen VI itself because that argument could really be made against any Gen beyond the introduction of the GTS (IV and beyond) and Gen I and Gen II had regional pokedexes that were their national dex.
I can see what you're saying through those points, there are certainly entries in the series that do those jobs better than the examples I gave. I'm hoping the issues that I have are somewhat addressed in whatever "Z version(s)" there may be. Especially the number of pokemon(hoping for some new additions to the pokedex, I think it would set and interesting precident), though it feels unlikely.
Bolt the Cat
Bringing the Thunder
As if Unova was any better a region than Kalos in BW1.
I think Kalos would be better off if it got XY2, then they could easily fix its problems with plot, region design, lack of areas, and lack of features.
Those were even worse in gen 2.
Region? Johto was just "go clockwise, go clockwise, take a little detour to Olivine, then go clockwise till you burst" and GSC Kanto was completely butchered, depopulated and several areas were axed.
Memorable locations? Gen 2's routes were nothing but patches of land with trainers and grass. Seriously, try to find and unique route in Gen 2.
Evil team? Team Rocket used Normal, Poison and the odd Drowzee. Flare had Dark, Psychic, Electric, Fighting, Fire and Poison.
Now I've never played Gen 5 so I'm going to ignore that one. Reason why I just didn't like the look of the overall game from the screenshots and none of the prerelease pokemon really struck my as good.
Gen 4 (HG) > Gen 6 > Gen 2 > Gen 1 > Gen 3
I liked Gen 4 the most because of the starters in DP. I enjoyed the overall look of the game and some of my favorite pokemon came from this generation. I liked Heart Gold especially though. I liked the fact that any pokemon that you had could follow you and the pokemon party photos you could take. I found that to be a fun feature. This game helped me feel like I had more of a connection with my pokemon compared to most other generations. I think the pokewalker helped a lot with that though. That was great fun aswell.
Gen 6 would be next because of all the great updates included. The adjustments to EV training. The new breeding mechanics. I feel like the game is finally catching up to modern video games so to speak. The only real problem I have is that the pokemon I carry are not reflected in the game outside of individual battles.
Gen 2 was a great game for me as I loved going back to Gen 1 areas and seeing how they changed. I also liked the features they added with breeding pokemon. It opened a lot of new interesting ideas for me of having just basic pokemon fight the elite four. I just remember myself having the most fun with that game compared to any other.
Gen 1 created my love of the game. It was a basic set up overall and really kick started my imagination of the universe of pokemon. I really liked it but overall it did absolutely feel like it was missing a lot even at that time.
Gen 3 though I don't like. I was not a fan of the overall art style of the game. I feel like the color pallet was missing something when running in the over world. Maybe that's from the limitations of the over world. I also wasn't a fan of some of the pokemon designs, Ludicolo, Gulpin, Spinda, and Tropius to name a few. I didn't hate the pokemon I just feel they just didn't look as good as other pokemon I've seen. I did like Sableye and Aron though. I also wasn't a big fan of the way the world was laid out. It seemed to require me to have a lot more of my pokemon learn HM moves which I was not a fan of. I did not like the underwater parts especially. They just seemed too artificial to me. I dunno I just always have looked at Gen 3 with a far more critical eye compared to the others. It may also be because I found the GBA a fairly poor piece of hardware as well.
Gen 4 (HG) > Gen 6 > Gen 2 > Gen 1 > Gen 3
I liked Gen 4 the most because of the starters in DP. I enjoyed the overall look of the game and some of my favorite pokemon came from this generation. I liked Heart Gold especially though. I liked the fact that any pokemon that you had could follow you and the pokemon party photos you could take. I found that to be a fun feature. This game helped me feel like I had more of a connection with my pokemon compared to most other generations. I think the pokewalker helped a lot with that though. That was great fun aswell.
Gen 6 would be next because of all the great updates included. The adjustments to EV training. The new breeding mechanics. I feel like the game is finally catching up to modern video games so to speak. The only real problem I have is that the pokemon I carry are not reflected in the game outside of individual battles.
Gen 2 was a great game for me as I loved going back to Gen 1 areas and seeing how they changed. I also liked the features they added with breeding pokemon. It opened a lot of new interesting ideas for me of having just basic pokemon fight the elite four. I just remember myself having the most fun with that game compared to any other.
Gen 1 created my love of the game. It was a basic set up overall and really kick started my imagination of the universe of pokemon. I really liked it but overall it did absolutely feel like it was missing a lot even at that time.
Gen 3 though I don't like. I was not a fan of the overall art style of the game. I feel like the color pallet was missing something when running in the over world. Maybe that's from the limitations of the over world. I also wasn't a fan of some of the pokemon designs, Ludicolo, Gulpin, Spinda, and Tropius to name a few. I didn't hate the pokemon I just feel they just didn't look as good as other pokemon I've seen. I did like Sableye and Aron though. I also wasn't a big fan of the way the world was laid out. It seemed to require me to have a lot more of my pokemon learn HM moves which I was not a fan of. I did not like the underwater parts especially. They just seemed too artificial to me. I dunno I just always have looked at Gen 3 with a far more critical eye compared to the others. It may also be because I found the GBA a fairly poor piece of hardware as well.
Hidden Power
Well-Known Member
Actually from a competitive point of view, the powerhouses with megas have benefited more, because megastone became one of the possible strategies they can employ, which makes team building and battle prediction more dynamic. Lower tier pokes that received good mega evolutions may have a place in higher tiers, but do not provide such a benefit. In fact, the presence of Pokemon like Charizard or Mawile in an OU team pretty much tells your opponent which Pokemon is running a megastone.
The point I'm making is that Pokemon that could benefit from a permanent evolution first should have gone for one. If not, Game Freak could have been bold enough to do a retcon and fix any poorly distributed stats or lackluster ability. Simply boosting a Pokemon via a mega evolution doesn't necessarily means a more diverse battle scene. If something gets promoted up a tier, it usually means something else is dropping down.
I'm not dismissing the efforts of Game Freak in Gen VI, but I'm not going to pile points after points in the graphics department for every new generation that comes along. As long as the quality of the game matches the console that they're released on they all get a full score from me. Nor do I assume that the more vibrant 3D graphics necessarily take more effort to create than older 2D graphics. With more complex models comes better graphics tools to build them.
By the way, a good sprite-based game can take as long, if not longer than the time taken for a 3D graphics game to develop.
Could BW and B2W2 have been released on the 3DS as well? No one knows. But each time I read an interview with Game Freak regarding a new generation, it's often stated that development took place roughly 3 years in advance. Just because the release date of BW coincide with the release of the 3DS doesn't mean that the development timeline allows for Game Freak to fit it in. Pokemon Red and Green were developed when Game Boy was nearing the end of its lifespan. Should Game Freak then hold it off and release it for Game Boy Color instead? Sometimes the circumstances at that point in time may not allow a game company to just keep waiting and waiting for the 'right' opportunity to release a game.
In short, there is a limit as to how much an aspect of a game that has a simplistic linear progression (graphics that gets better and better, plots that get more and more catastrophic, regional dex that gets bigger and bigger) can entice me.
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ilovemyumbreon
Holding a Moon Shard
I know that Game Freak puts effort into every game, I just think the progress and effort is most obvious in XY. Dismissing this based on the comparison of sprite development to the 3D development does not make sense to me and it is not a comparison I made in my post. I do not know if BWB2W2 could have been made on the 3DS, but it is my opinion that they should have held out on the new generation until thy could create the games for the 3DS. GameFreak thought that the Gen V product was complete enough to release and so it happened. Many of the sprites in Gen V were just recycled from Gen IV. GameFreak will continue to develop how they see fit, but that does not mean fans have to like everything they do. Of course Pokémon will always have its limits. Even with its limits, Pokémon outshines many other games and will always be a worthwhile experience for me, but that's not to say that it will be for you.
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