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Your stance on Goals?

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Spin Attaxx

2012-2013
I guess it may not look so bad when it's YOU who goes through all those retcons and failures pursuing what is ultimately a fruitless goal. At least then you're not part of an audience getting pissed off at stupidity yet still watches for some reason.
 

Shneak

this is a Nessa x Sonia stan account ✨
Both Iris and Cilan's goals have been disappointing because they're not actually being developed.

Iris only has an Axew and a Dragonite. Her Axew has barely matured but it's picked up some good moves at random. It rarely battles though. Dragonite didn't listen to her when she first caught it and she never really made it obey her without help. She doesn't actively try to catch any more dragons. She lost to Drayden, but it was a step forward for her.

Cilan's goal is totally undeveloped. He beat Burgundy and Pinot Noir. He does his evaluation time in battles and apparently everyone hates it. He's made no significant accomplishment or step to get S class.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Well so far for the main cast we've had a few goals.

-Open Goals-
Ash : Pokémon Master
Misty : Water Pokémon Master
Brock : World's Best Pokémon Breeder *dropped goal*
Iris : Dragon Master

-Focused Goals-
Ash : Pokémon Champion -Win a Regional Pokémon League- *accomplished by winning the Orange League*
May : Top Coordinator -Win a Grand Festival-
Max : Pokémon Trainer -Reach 10 years old and pick a starter pokémon-
Dawn : Top Coordinator -Win a Grand Festival-
Brock : Pokémon Doctor -Study and take exams and stuff-
Cilan : S-Rank Pokémon Connoisseur -Gain knowledge and pass the S-Rank exam- *My thoughts based on seeing the organization being similar to a school system*
Trip : Pokémon Champion - -Win a Regional Pokémon League-
Cameron : Pokémon Champion -Win a Regional Pokémon League-

* - Although Pokémon Champion could also refer to becoming the Top Trainer in a region like Lance, Wallace, Cynthia, and Alder instead of just winning the Pokemon League like the games. Although Pokémon Master may apply to be the "Champion" game-wise as well. It is vague.

Overall I like a mix of the goals presented in the show. I hope that the next girl will have a more "realistic" goal by wanting to be a Pokémon Professor or something.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
what exactly constitutes understanding hearts of dragons? becasue she knew dragonite well enough.

Well, even though it wasn't stated, it wouldn't be surprising. She a Champion after all.

Iris only has an Axew and a Dragonite. Her Axew has barely matured but it's picked up some good moves at random. It rarely battles though. Dragonite didn't listen to her when she first caught it and she never really made it obey her without help. She doesn't actively try to catch any more dragons. She lost to Drayden, but it was a step forward for her.
Being a Dragon Master is just having one Dragon though, there's no need for more than one. You can be a Dragon Master with a Deino, Dratini or anything.
 

moneylesswario

Gone But Not Forgotten
I guess it may not look so bad when it's YOU who goes through all those retcons and failures pursuing what is ultimately a fruitless goal. At least then you're not part of an audience getting pissed off at stupidity yet still watches for some reason.

That's more sad (as in pathetic sad, though could also be emotional sad) than dark.
 

LizardonX

Banned
Well, even though it wasn't stated, it wouldn't be surprising. She a Champion after all.


Being a Dragon Master is just having one Dragon though, there's no need for more than one. You can be a Dragon Master with a Deino, Dratini or anything.

OMG Ash is almost a dragon master! After all he already has half the requirements down!
 

JennaJayfeather

Gangrenous Creature
You know I'm not so sure about a Dragon Master is only having one Dragon to be half a master. :/ Like that's too vague, however if you devote yourself to dragons and have extensive knowledge and own and train at least one dragon you could become one. But I don't even know what Dragon Masters do...can they earn money from that? .-.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
You know I'm not so sure about a Dragon Master is only having one Dragon to be half a master. :/ Like that's too vague, however if you devote yourself to dragons and have extensive knowledge and own and train at least one dragon you could become one. But I don't even know what Dragon Masters do...can they earn money from that? .-.
Says it only takes one Dragon to be a Dragon Master. So yeah. Kinda weird, but that's Pokemon for ya. Though Georgia did call Iris out on not having more Dragons in their first confrontation.

OMG Ash is almost a dragon master! After all he already has half the requirements down!

Okay, no. Cynthia is not a Dragon Master, that's someone who can apparently have an extremely emotional connection to Dragon Pokemon. Almost like a power itself, basically it's like N's ability to understand Pokemon only nerfed to only understand Dragons. I went back and watched the Dragon Village episode and it's apparently something Iris, the Village Elder, and Drayden specifically have. Cynthia never displayed such a characteristic thus is not a Dragon Master. The only powers Ash has is his ability to use Aura :p May also has her People of the Water Powers from the Manaphy movie
 
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LizardonX

Banned
So now its limited only to those with the dragon magic. Good to know a small village in Unova holds the monopoly on dragon masters.
 

JennaJayfeather

Gangrenous Creature
Okay, no. Cynthia is not a Dragon Master, that's someone who can apparently have an extremely emotional connection to Dragon Pokemon. Almost like a power itself, basically it's like N's ability to understand Pokemon only nerfed to only understand Dragons. I went back and watched the Dragon Village episode and it's apparently something Iris, the Village Elder, and Drayden specifically have. Cynthia never displayed such a characteristic thus is not a Dragon Master. The only powers Ash has is his ability to use Aura :p May also has her People of the Water Powers from the Manaphy movie

What if I loved Dragons and wanted to be a Dragon master?

I don't think it takes a power, it takes lurv and understanding. IMO, you can understand anything just by monitoring their behavior by doing focal/scan Pokemon sampling to understand them just as good. Cynthia isn't a Dragon Master because she doesn't want to be. Her Dragon is strong, yes but she doesn't devote herself to understanding one type. You could compare it to a Biologist and a Primatologist, I guess.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
What if I loved Dragons and wanted to be a Dragon master?

I don't think it takes a power, it takes lurv and understanding. IMO, you can understand anything just by monitoring their behavior by doing focal/scan Pokemon sampling to understand them just as good. Cynthia isn't a Dragon Master because she doesn't want to be. Her Dragon is strong, yes but she doesn't devote herself to understanding one type. You could compare it to a Biologist and a Primatologist, I guess.
That's an interesting take on things. I would probably have to go back and watch "The Path to Becoming a Dragon Master" from earlier BW, my mind's a little fuzzy. When it comes to the Dragon-Hearting part though anyone can try to be one, some just have better "potential" to do this than others. In other words the Village Elder was calling Iris a prodigy in a way. Shannon, her friend, had better "potential" for breeding. I must have misunderstand ^^;; So it's not really a power, just a very hard-to-learn ability that some have to the potential to hone and foster if they choose to. N fine-tuned his ability to understand Pokemon because of Ghetsis's influence, plus iirc,(don't quote me on this) it was hinted N was a descendant of the King of Unova who could understand Pokemon. Being abused and forced to watch Pokemon be hurt at a young age amplified this natural talent. Iris's is more so a nerfed version since it's exclusive to Dragons and has not been refined in the same vain. Plus Iris has that talent in the game as well which is why she was such a exceptional trainer in-game to Drayden.

So now its limited only to those with the dragon magic. Good to know a small village in Unova holds the monopoly on dragon masters.

Huh, what are you talking about? :p Drayden isn't from the Dragon Village.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I guess it may not look so bad when it's YOU who goes through all those retcons and failures pursuing what is ultimately a fruitless goal. At least then you're not part of an audience getting pissed off at stupidity yet still watches for some reason.

The difference is that he's actually having the time of his life while doing it. It's an endless circle of FUN.
 

Caseydia

Ace Trainer
I don't have anything against goals. But characters who aren't really given anything into persuing that goal is something I never enjoyed.
 

OceanicLanturn

Non non non!
I prefer more solid goals, like Top Coordinator - win a Grand Festival to more vague goals, eg. Water Master / Dragon Master. I know it has been specified that Dragon Master = understanding a dragon, but there's no like, tests or anything to show that you truly understand dragons. I mean, I can just go pick up a frowny Deino and say it's hungry. Or a happy Dratini and say, it really likes its trainer! There's no solid tests / competitions or anything, but I have to agree that Dragon Master goals are much more defined than Misty's Water Master Goal (Don't quote me on that).

Though, I don't really mind vague goals as long as it is properly developed and isn't crammed into a tiny amount of time. I mean, take Iris. I feel that during BW Iris is just liek lolololol i'm walking with this kibago in my hair on my way to bec0m3 a dr@g0n m@st3r with only one dragon type who gets lost a lot! Then BW2 came and it feels really... crammed I guess. She gets Dragonite, her first strong dragon. Kibago gets development vs Cynthia's Garchomp. Dragonite beats two ice type. Iris's Dragon Master goal is reexplored vs Shaga. To me, I think that Iris could've caught a 'psuedo-Dragonite' during her stay in BW and evolve it during BW2. No offense to you all Iris-fans, but it feels to me that the writers are trying to cram Iris's Dragon Master Goal into a short period of time so when they write her off the show, she will have something to brag about. I no likez. That's why I prefer contests. It's progressive. 1 ribbon, 1 ribbon, 1 ribbon, 1 ribbon, 1 ribbon, Grand Festival!

Those are just my personal stances. Feel free to disagree ~
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
So far the Coordinators seem to have the best goal IMO. They know what they need to do they just haven't done it yet and unlike Ash, I don't think it would take them years to obtain their goal because they just need to win a GF to become a Top Coordinator and considering how close the two girls got it's only a matter of time.

Vague goals IMO are not good goals. I would assume Misty's Water Pokemon Master thing would be to raise a bunch of Water Pokemon and know everything about them and overcome their weaknesses? I'm not sure. Iris's whole understand a Dragon's heart thing...yeah. Does she need to dissect a Dragon, open it up and see it's heart to understand it's feelings? Nah I'm kidding there. Ash has the most vague goal and IMO it's the worst one because it's never ending and is a cheap ploy to keep him on the show forever. Brock's doctor goal is fine for him since it fits and I would say his goal is pretty much done. He's a Pokemon doctor and dropped his Breeder goal. Probably cause the writers themselves didn't know where they were going with it. I don't know enough about Cilan's goal to make a comment.

I would say Max, May, and Dawn's goals are the most clear. Misty's is in the middle, I don't think it's as vague as most believe it. Brock and Tracey feel done to me, unless Brock goes back to being a breeder. Iris and Ash are vague. Iris is only vague to me because I don't know much about her goal and Ash's is just a ploy to keep him on the show. Pokemon Master doesn't even feel like a goal to me anymore, at least not one worth watching over 600 episodes for.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
That's why you don't watch it for the goal, it's all the fun stuff on the way. It is just an excuse to have them journey.

Yes, Pokemon is a show about the journey not the destination(goal) at the end of the day. That's one of the things I enjoy vastly about the anime.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Yes, Pokemon is a show about the journey not the destination(goal) at the end of the day. That's one of the things I enjoy vastly about the anime.

Differnet strokes for different folks, Pokemon is a show indeed about the destination but it's definately not one for people looking for any character fulfillment, since the character never accomplish their goals, therefore feel imcomplete.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
Differnet strokes for different folks, Pokemon is a show indeed about the destination but it's definately not one for people looking for any character fulfillment, since the character never accomplish their goals, therefore feel imcomplete.

Agreed. It's why I stopped caring about Ash's development, and his goal. Of all the things I'm looking forward to in the new region, I feel totally indifferent to Ash. I wish they'd push him in the background but that won't happen.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Differnet strokes for different folks, Pokemon is a show indeed about the destination but it's definately not one for people looking for any character fulfillment, since the character never accomplish their goals, therefore feel imcomplete.
Honestly, maybe if Pokemon was a deeper show with a more consistent plot I'd agreed. It isn't a very deep show on that side of the spectrum however, it's that type of show that relies on new places, new faces, and speedy attention-grabbing plot-lines. Honestly, I don't like stories to be completely closed. It leave no room for the imagination. I like having some sort of creative freedom with the series I get into. I don't mind Iris becoming a Dragon Master eventually because she still would have her other goal/career as the Opelucid Gym Leader and plus Dragon Masters aren't the end-all be-all. I don't mind the current formula at all and if you watch this show just to see a character accomplish their goal your buying into a fool's game tbh. We should all know by now Pokemon isn't that type of show. I don't think Ash will be achieving simple as, what I assume to be, extravagant as being a Pokemon Master. Hell, Iris is the first person with a "master" goal that's actually reachable. Max didn't accomplish his goal and might now ever, his goal was simply to get his first Pokemon and start a journey. Brock jumped from Breeder to Doctor in the second-to-last episode of DP. Gary abandoned that whole trainer thing to be something more realistic and normal like a professor. People change and it's natural, goals are hardly ever achieved in this show anyway. Zoey is the one and only long term person to actually achieve her goal iirc.
 
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