Your stance on RNG manipulation?

[Carlisle]

I find it hilarious that people are so averse to using an AR/Pokesav/whatever that they bother to use a ridiculously convulted method of obtaining "legitimate" shinies, among other things...Especially since you need a cheating device of some sort to find out your SID for the RNG manipulation process. Unless you want to use this incredibly simple process that Smogon provides, in which case you're 100% clean, but still have way too much time on your hands and care way too much about getting "legitimate" pallette-swapped Pokemon.

I understand people RNG manipulating for good stats and natures, to the extent they ARE cutting out ridiculous amounts of breeding to get everything just *perfect*, but I never quite understood why people are obsessed with shinies so much that they not only must have them, but they must have "legitimate" ones. Oh wait, I forgot, pieces of data have "value" and being able to mass-produce them ruins that value. Screw you, I have my shinies, everyone else must spend as much time and luck on getting them as I have. If you want one but don't want to beg for one on the trading forums or hope and pray that the game generously spawns one, too goddamned bad. I don't have an AR or Pokesav, and I'm not competitive enough to bother getting them to bypass hundreds of hours of grinding for perfection(it's simpler not to care about perfection in the first place!), but goddamn are these people annoying. It's not your game! Why do you care so much about what other people do in their games as long as it's not affecting you? (shinies "losing their value" doesn't count)

Seriously, if you only want to use Pokemon obtained by normal in-game means, fine, knock yourself out, but don't whine and pout about it so much that other people feel the need to manipulate the RNG just to satisfy the arbitrary requirements for "legitimate" Pokemon you and others like you expect people to use. I think RNG manipulation is a stupid waste of time(just use Pokesav if you're that desperate for a shiny, or play the game normally if you're that insistant on only doing what the game's programming allows), but if you want to do it...I won't stop you, but I will be thinking that you have waaaaay too much time on your hands. Similarly, I wouldn't care too much about you people who only care about using legitimate Pokemon you bred and trained with your blood, sweat, and tears if you would shut up for a minute about people who, somehow, don't want to play the game the exact same way you do. But you refuse to shut up, so yell at you I must.




Sadly, people who are a-ok with cheating and people who think that cheating is a mortal sin will never be able to coexist here, because Serebii has declared that we can't handle having filthy cheaters here and thus has banned anything that might involve someone cheating(You want an Arceus? Sorry, can't get one here, go to any other Pokemon forum on the internet because this is the only one that thinks you either can't handle getting a *gasp* illegitimate Arceus, or are too stupid to realize that at this point, most Arceus will be the result of cheating of some kind). Note the irony points with the Serebii pages listed in my sig and win half a brain.

OMG YES YES.

This is THE smartest post I have read in this thread! You're so right. Going about this EXTREMELY long and ridiculous method is alright, but hacking the Aurora Ticket or Azure Flute isn't? -_-

 

[scarecrow_stitches]

So basically, this whole RNG manipulation crap is just a more complicated way to hack the game. It's pretty much the same as "cheating" as far as I'm concerned. It's ridiculous and you shouldn't waste your time trying to trick your game into giving you that perfect shiny with a perfect attack nature. Just enjoy the damn game for what it is!

/end rant.

 

[Eon047]

I find it cheating for two reasons:

#1: People can (and do) use it to cheat for shinies with flawless stats

#2: Shinies are meant to be rare, and if you can't be bothed to actually try to catch a real one. You don't deserve one.

Heh #1 Yes we can breed shines with perfect stats, but this is alot and i repeat A LOT harder then catching it due to luck or even then chaining which is very easy compared to rng manipulation and something anyone can do

#2 RNG manipulation requires more work then randomly getting lucky, meaning you REALLY are putting in the work to get what you want, instead of taking the easy route by just getting lucky. Its only for the patient and the dedicated, the elite and the premium of pokemon trainers who not only get off thier *** and do what they need to do and get what they want through hard work, not through cheat devices and lucky antics. We put the work in to get what we want period. It is not cheating, it is the breaking of a system we dont have to follow,a Advantageous programing allowing us pro's to do what we need to do, and go a step above to recieve we want to recieve, and of course, reward for good old fashioned hard work.
Amen;113; PS I love RNG manipulation!

 

[Arande]

it's simply a game mechanic that was investigated and put to use. All games have RNGs. RNG's determine variables of games. So it makes sense that you can do whatever when it is cracked for a certain game.

There's no cheating as you aren't altering the code cirectly, just knowing "if I flip the coin x times, the RNG advances X counts" No different than knowing "If i use a syncer, or an everstone, it can help get the nature I want." or "If I fight X pokemon Y times, this poke will get Z extra of a stat"

 

[sillynub]

we also shouldn't manipulate evs they aren't meant for us to be known and if we can't happen to get a 72 184 252 mixape spread by accident we don't deserve it

 

[Malakai]

Working within loopholes in the game's coding is less cheating or hacking than it is exploiting. If you know how to do it, hats off to you. And hats off to whomever it was that figured out how to do it in the first place.

 

[Ohshi]

Eh, I don't think it is cheating because it actually requires a legit random encounter shiny. But RNG shinies, I don't think it is cheating. I don't think cloning is cheating also. Btw, can you hatch RNG shinies in Emerald?

 

[Sprintking]

#2 RNG manipulation requires more work then randomly getting lucky, meaning you REALLY are putting in the work to get what you want, instead of taking the easy route by just getting lucky. Its only for the patient and the dedicated, the elite and the premium of pokemon trainers who not only get off thier *** and do what they need to do and get what they want through hard work, not through cheat devices and lucky antics. We put the work in to get what we want period. It is not cheating, it is the breaking of a system we dont have to follow,a Advantageous programing allowing us pro's to do what we need to do, and go a step above to recieve we want to recieve, and of course, reward for good old fashioned hard work.

The elite and premium of pokemon trainers? That made me laugh. And as far as getting off their *** and doing what they need to do, it's a handheld video game, and many people, including those who RNG, may play sitting down. Don't try to make it seem so much better than using a cheat device, you are just doing the work of the device yourself. Yes, you "pro's" do what you need to do,(more or less hacking the game) which is SOMETHING ANYONE CAN DO. There is no skill, anyone can follow a set of instructions to do what you "pro's" do.

And as far as it not being cheating: Fine, don't call it "cheating", but that doesn't change what it is, exploiting the mechanics of the game to gain perfect pokemon with minimal effort of the user. That's basically what a cheat device does for you.

 

[TryaniBu]

If someon can find my Sid i will give them a

legit Shiny
lv.80 31 atk IV over 25 for all other IV's
Giratina
My friend cloned it so i have two.

PM if you will help!
I will trade you a junk pokemon you find out my SiD tell me ill test it and if it works ill send you the Giratina

The Giratina is from my Pearl game and im trying to find out the SiD for my Platinum game so i cant use the Random Encounter method.

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks!

 

[Ohshi]

The elite and premium of pokemon trainers? That made me laugh. And as far as getting off their *** and doing what they need to do, it's a handheld video game, and many people, including those who RNG, may play sitting down. Don't try to make it seem so much better than using a cheat device, you are just doing the work of the device yourself. Yes, you "pro's" do what you need to do,(more or less exploiting the mechanics of the game) which is SOMETHING ANYONE CAN DO. There is no skill, anyone can follow a set of instructions to do what you "pro's" do.

Uh, its harder than it looks. I tried for days. Haven't got one yet. x.x

I think it is more on luck than skill to get it actually right on the exact frame.
But for some people, it is simple. It depends on your game.

 

[Lon]

If the RNG isn't random enough that its outcomes can be predicted and manipulated, then I say people can feel free to mess with it as they see fit. It certainly seems to require quite a bit of work and practice, and they are more or less obtaining the creatures within the game's natural parameters. Of course if the Pokemon world were to truly exist, there would be no way to actually RNG manipulate nature, but that is an idea for another day.

I suppose my stance is that I see nothing really wrong with it. The game is creating an outcome that it could naturally create if the player would have randomly done the steps that they needed to do anyway.

 

[Raikou_fan]

Personally, I don't get any satisfaction from getting a pokemon that way. I'de rather work hard to get a good pkmn than manipulate a code.

I don't, however, think that it's cheating. All it takes is a little math to find the SID and all the other information needed to use RNG.

Even though I refuse to use it myself, I won't criticize those who are comfortable using it.

 

[petstock]

Umm cheating is supposed to make things easier for us to do and this RNG thing sounds hard so thierfore it isn't cheating.

It seems to me the only ones who say it is cheating are the ones that can't get it to work and don't want to accept the fact in case people think they look like idiot's. Which they are for thinking such a stupid thing.

 

[shinyS33ker]

geting a shiny through this method just isnt the same as getting 1 through more known methods

 

[The Corrupt Plague]

Eh, I could care less. it's still legit in my book.

 

[DNAfan386]

I feel that RNG'ing is a sleazy way to get shinies, but it's effective. I don't hold it to be hacking or cheating at all. There are no outside devices, no messing with the coding, all that you do has the chance of happening by accident. You could just happen to start your game on the right seed, get bored and play around with the happiness checker, and hit it the right number of times (it's not always over 100, sometimes it's under 10), then feel like trying a coin flip, and after that, you realize you should get back to trying to breed a shiny with the masuda method. It hatches, and it is shiny! Even by accident, and you never know that you could have guessed ahead that it was shiny. With this method, you are just "arranging" the events, starting on the seed, and advancing the frame to the correct frame to get the IV or shinies. I've done it three times, and at first, I felt it only detracted from the whole point of the game, but then I realized, shinies are just shinies. This way you can get what you want for aesthetic purposes without wasting your life hatching endless numbers of eggs, or maybe even get the right nature. The shinies I got while checking if RNG'ing works are in no way even close to my non-RNG'd shines in value, but I only wanted them for aesthetics, so I see no foul. With the lack of hacking, the coding is entirely legit, and won't harm your game, thus I can't argue with it in that regard. You must also remember that it is not some simple deal, you must learn the ways of RNG'ing, and practice, and with all else, only a select, elite group of people can do it anyway; you must have caught an in-game shiny pokemon without chaining to figure out your SID (I thought legally learning my SID within 3 numbers (three either way, making the 7 numbers) was cool enough) without hacking, unless you hack to find your SID, in which it would be ever so much easier to get the pokemon you want that way. Ergo, only the lucky ones who get legit, in-game, non-chained shinies can partake in RNG'ing. It does seem a bit cheesey if you are in it for the perfect IV's to crush your opponent who has no chance to RNG, and I agree in that respect. However, if you are against a formidable opponent (the battle frontier), who uses just as cheesey tactics to beat you (OHKO moves working more often then they should, luck items like the bright powder working more than they ought to), than I say go for it! Wipe the floor with the frontier brains that way! (If you don't understand what I'm talking about, you have NOT spent near as much time as I have in the battle tower.) Above all remember this, the official video game championships held by Nintendo allowed RNG'd pokemon to be used, I don't know how to argue against the creators about whether to use it or not. Thus, I say great research Smogon, admirable work there! As long as you know your limits, like mine: only battle frontier usage of RNG'd pokemon, RNG away trainers.

 

[Agonist]

Dude you just bumped a thread from 11 ****ing months ago to write a long winded speech about rng abuse that no one give a **** about.

 

[DNAfan386]

Dude you just bumped a thread from 11 ****ing months ago to write a long winded speech about rng abuse that no one give a **** about.

Oh wow, what a joke. You know what no one really cares about? Some out of the blue post that applies nothing to the thread and is only added to attack some user's completely valid post. Did you notice that was my first post? Way to attack the new guy.

On an up note, RNG'd a 31/31/31/9/31/31 Electivire. Battle Tower, I'm going in.

 

[temperBOT]

I just read up on this and find it fascinating. Here are my thoughts:

I think it's safe to say the developers hadn't intended for their game to be picked apart like this and manipulated in this way. Pokemon is a lot about chance and it has always been like that since the beginning. This may be the largest theme in pokemon, the unpredictability of the games and the different outcomes you'll encounter while you play. It's ironic though, that the system designed for creating this so called "randomness" or unpredictability is in fact completely predictable. It's very well hidden to most players, but a few have dissected the code for the rest of us and now Pokemon games are exposed and the illusion is spoiled for some. In the end, it is only a matter of how you enjoy playing. It's your game and you can play however you'd like. But some play-styles are more Pokemon-like than the others and those are the ones that are played more like the developers had intended. It's too bad the developers couldn't mask their illusion better, but it is impossible to create random numbers so there will always be some level of predictability to Pokemon games. I think that if you have to use an external program to catch a shiny or perfect pokemon then you are taking away some of the charm of the game. Kudos to whoever figured out the math behind these games, but let's not expose the inner workers too much so that Pokemon can still play the role in entertainment it was designed for.

 

[TyranitarFan]

just exactly how do you do RNG abuse? can someone PM/ VM me a link?
btw would a 13 year old like me able to figure it out?