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Your views on abortion

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Shiny hunter Reece, Dec 14, 2009.

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  1. I couldn't find an abortion thread, so here goes.

    Self-explanatory. Tell us what your views are on abortion. Should it be banned? Should there simply be restrictions on it? Should it be left as it is? That sort of stuff.

    I think there should be a few changes:

    Parents who did not use protection should not be able to have their baby aborted. If they couldn't be bothered to use protection, then they should face the consequences (condoms work most of the time, but not always).
    Abortion should also be allowed in cases of rape.

    If abortion was completely banned, the population would rise quickly, causing problems such as not enough work, not enough places to live, etc. I understand that it might be cruel to abort a fetus, but It's still not a good idea to ban abortion and let the world become any more overpopulated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  2. Venomfrog

    Venomfrog Perpetual Observer

    Personally I am for abortion. The concept of killing anything does not make me happy, but the parents get the choice. :/

    With this I highly disagree. People make mistakes, they may have been too flustered that night or simply thought a baby would have been a good idea, but then something came up which would make a baby a huge complication. Should that mean they are forced to keep the unborn child? No.

    I agree with this, obviously. Women made pregnant by rape, or any women for that matter, should not be bound to deliver a conceived child.

    Abortion is not a fun event (my mother had to abort once since she got pregnant only a few months after her very draining first pregnancy), but it should not be banned, because before the child comes into this world, the parents may decide not to bring it in, and that is their choice. I do not condone the murder of infants, but an unwanted baby can ruin somebody's life, and it is too strict to say that those who did not use protection should be forced to keep the child. If the parents truly do not want the child (or just the one party in the case of rape), then it is their responsibility to go back before it is born and reverse the procedure, but the reversal should be allowed.
     
  3. ^ That actually makes more sense than what I originally put.

    Where I live, there are quite a few people who want abortion banned, even in cases of rape.
     
  4. Venomfrog

    Venomfrog Perpetual Observer

    What are their reasons? If it is to be argued that it should be banned, what are the premises for this opinion?
     
  5. Some people say that a baby can't help how it was concieved. Because of that, a lot of people say it should be banned. It's mostly catholic priests and other religious people that want this. I'd imagine some people see it as murder.

    That isn't my opinion, it's what some people believe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  6. frozenthrone101

    frozenthrone101 BugBite Leader

    i think it should be allowed , it is not murder , the baby has not got a mind of its own , thats like saying every time you cut a piece of bread its murder , but if a baby is concieved by accident , i say get an abortion , because if that baby grows up and finds it was not planned , its life will stop right there , and the parents will have to deal with a lot of guilt , also its the womens body , she should have the choice of what to do
     
  7. Electricbluewolf

    Electricbluewolf Fʟᴇsʜʏ Bᴏᴡs



    Sorry. but noooooooooooo
    1- Most rape do not have protection. In deed, you said the it should be allowed. Just because it is not rape, does not mean it should be said that they must keep the baby. In thrid world countries, abortion is very exspensive
    and
    2-How many new people have sex every year, and some of the babies may be a mistake.
    3-Now underage sex-like say a child of 12-16, giving birth to
    a baby can cause great grief and even kill mother, child or both,
    then that means abortion has killed a child and a baby
     
  8. Venomfrog

    Venomfrog Perpetual Observer

    The definition of murder is "the deliberate killing of another human being". Thus whether or not abortion is murder hinges on "another human being". In my opinion, a fetus is a human being, so abortion can be seen as murder, but I still believe it should be allowed while the killing of a born human should not.

    Why? Due to the imperfect nature of humans, there are bound to be mistakes, which should not be encouraged, but there should be a margin of forgiveness for these mistakes depending on their magnitude. Unwanted pregnancy is in my opinion a mistake of not as great magnitude as unwanted pregnancy without doing anything about it afterward.

    A baby may not be able to help how it is conceived, but soon-to-be parents sometimes do not have much control over it either, whether it be through rape, forgetting to wear production or simply acting rashly, thinking a baby would be a help. If two parents (or the victim in the rape case) do not feel themselves prepared to face the consequences of their sexual actions, then there should be a measure of leniency for them. Just like minor infractions in life are treated with a warning, unwanted pregnancy followed by abortion can be a warning, because like I said before, abortion is not a fun event. A woman who has to undergo an abortion will learn to be more careful the next time, a more fitting penance in my opinion than having to raise a child from the ground up or put it up for adoption.

    I do not believe in forced abortion at all (pressure from a party other than the parent(s) who can be deemed not at fault, i.e. non-rapists), but I believe that abortion should be an open option for that parent(s).

    Basically, whether or not someone believes in abortion depends on whether or not they consider a fetus's experiences inside the womb to constitute enough of a life that terminating it will be wronging it, which I personally do not believe. Does that mean that because there are those who consider it to be a wrongdoing it should be outright banned? I do not think so.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  9. Slightly Insane

    Slightly Insane like a BOSS

    And why do they deserve the choice?



    There is no "quick fix" button in life. If you are wealthy and never lock your doors, you're going to be robbed. If you piss the wrong person off, you're going to get stabbed. If you have sex without protection, you're going to get pregnant. The man that gets robbed cannot rob his neighbor to maintain his current lifestyle. He has to deal with the consequences, and next time be more cautious. Killing a human life is NOT an answer to what could have been easily prevented with condoms, birth control, or simply not having sex (GASP).



    So instead of suffering for nine months, then having a new life, the simple solution is to murder the child? I suppose people with this belief would also agree to murdering elderly people who live in nursing homes and hospitals; who's only contribution to society is a burden due to their constant needs for health care and the inability to pay for it. Wouldn't the easy solution just be to stick the needle in anybody that can't take care of themselves? If you say no, then why say yes to children?

    "Abortion shouldn't be banned, because before the child comes into this world, the parents may decide they want to murder it, and that is their choice."

    Abortion is the murder of infants. If you don't condemn it, you condone it.

    As can leaving your house unlocked, pissing off the wrong person, and driving drunk. There's no quick fix in life without harming somebody else. Guess who abortion harms.

    If you want to have sex without the burdens of a child, you use protection.

    Let's do some basic math.

    PENIS + VAGINA = CHILD.

    (PENIS + CONDOM) + (VAGINA + BIRTH CONTROL) = NO CHILD.

    There is a risk in everything. If you like to race cars, there's a chance you might crash. If you like to play football, there's a chance you may seriously break yourself. If you like to have sex, there's a chance you'll have a baby. Only an idiot would go into any of these situations without taking the proper measures to protect themselves.

    If the parents do not want the child, they do not have sex, or they load on the protection. The "reversal" murders the baby. There is no possible reason to justify the murder of an innocent child other than to make your life easier.

    Life isn't fair. People get raped, and people get robbed. People lose their jobs, lose their families, lose their friends, and lose their lives. There is no "quick fix" for any of these, but for some reason the human race has decided that the murdering of a baby is a reasonable answer to an accidental pregnancy, when the real answer is to just not have sex unless you are ready for a child. People should think less about sex and more about finances until they can support a family. This may come as a surprise, but people don't get pregnant unless they have sex. No sex = No baby. Do the math.
     
  10. To Slightly Insane:

    You're against abortion, I guess? Yes. I'm not that thick.

    I know it might be cruel to abort a fetus, but if abortion was banned, the world's population would rise too much.

    Overpopulation = not enough jobs for people on the planet + not enough places to live
     
  11. Empoleon Bonaparte

    Empoleon Bonaparte Well-Known Member

    It's hard not to when you get raped.

    And do realise that abortion might be better sometimes. What if the mother is extremely poor, got raped and has no one that looks after her? Would you allow a child to grow up like that? IMHO, eh.
     
  12. IMPERIAL DRAGON

    IMPERIAL DRAGON Enemy Of Reality

    Refuse abortion to parents who did not use contraception? No offence, but that just filled the daily dense comment quota. How would you rather these women deal with an unwanted pregnancy? Throw themselves down the stairs? Go on a drunken high bender as an attempt to force a miscarriage? Abortion is a far lesser evil. With our ever expanding population the last thing we need is a surge of unwanted children created as a result of the suggestion abortion should have stricter limitations. One major issue we have in this country is the ridiculous amount of single mothers who spawn purely for benefits or council housing, and they’re also basically just breeding scum, so I’d expect you to have more sympathy for abortion when its benefits outweigh any opposition. This is something British members will relate to since here there is a culture of uncouth women getting pregnant too young and turning to the benefit system to fund their ever expanding family, you see them all the time, pushing prams down the high street, *** in one hand, swearing like hell at the kids, those sort of people need their reproduction limited.

    The circumstances in which pregnancy happens is totally irrelevant, regardless of whether people are caught in the heat of the moment, the contraception fails or its due to rape, the option to abort is a right I fiercely support and defend. It’s a shame if situations get out of hand or lack of responsibility leads to unplanned pregnancy, but that is the entire purpose of abortion, a last resort safety net to rely on if all else fails, for when we mess up. Having that fundamental right restricted is just pure sacrilege since no one should be forced to bring a child into the world they don’t actually want or intend to fully care for, because face facts, its far kinder in the long run for an unwanted child to be aborted than born into a life of misery and resentment in which he/ she lives a half life due to lack of love.

    Abortion isn’t murder as such; it’s more like damage prevention, dealing with a problem before it ruins the lives of the mother and father, who are infinitely more important.
    Religion should never be brought into this issue since this is an exclusively human concern, it’s a social question left to be answered by the individuals involved, simple as that, no one else has the right to infringe upon the choices of those it actually effects.


    Slightly Insane - reply to my post and we'll make this interesting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  13. Venomfrog

    Venomfrog Perpetual Observer

    This makes quite a bit of sense, but I ask you this: just because your house was robbed, or you were stabbed, does that make everything right because you did something to make yourself vulnerable to it? Even if the result of your mistake is devastating (potentially fatal, as well), does that mean the result should be left as it is?

    No, even if the parents are at fault, something should be done afterward to help the parents, help them recover like they would from a robbery, stabbing, etc. Of course, killing a human life is not a solution, which means that other solutions should be offered.

    Which you did beautifully, in this paragraph:

    Yes, it would be ideal if everyone knew this, and lived by it. However, while people may realize that No sex = No baby, there are any number of situations (condom breaking, rape, etc.) where the No sex side of the equation is negated and No baby has the potential to reserve as well.

    I in no way condone the murder of born people, and it is not accurate to assume that anyone with my opinion condones it either. I see an unborn child as being in a different class from a born child, because an unborn child is part of the mother while a born child is part of society. While you could say that the relationship of fetus-to-mother is similar to seniors-to-society, this is not exactly a correct comparison, because a fetus has no experience in the world, while a senior (or any born person for that matter) has some. Seniors in homes should not be murdered because they are a part of society, and murder is a crime because it harms human society, in general the stable relationships between human beings which let them continue to exist in this world. You may say that a fetus has the potential to have experiences which impact society, but if a fetus is killed before it leaves the womb, tell me exactly what is lost by society.

    Sure, I condone throwing a baby into a river...

    Of course I do not condone child homicide just because I believe that abortion should not be banned. Why? I see a difference between a fetus and a child, explained above in my paragraph about what constitutes society.

    If you said that "Guess who abortion harms" line to my mother, or anyone else who has had it or seen someone had it, then you would not be likely to get "the unborn child" as a response. It is a trying, painful experience, but does my mother regret it? To an extent. She regrets getting pregnant at such a level of health which forced her to get an abortion because otherwise she would have had a potentially fatal miscarriage. When a woman uses protection but through bad luck it breaks, is twenty years old, has a twenty-year-husband, is romantic by nature and is sick enough that a miscarriage would kill her, does she deserve to face the chance of death just to bring in a child who would likely have died anyway due to the miscarriage?

    It is just like the students who look at the equations, and then get something completely foreign on the exam, when a man busts through a window and rapes a woman, or a condom breaks. Just like that, alright.

    Protection is not a fail-safe method. See the case of my mother, only alive today because she had an abortion, decided once out of four times to try something which while not appealing is sometimes a method which I think is the only sensible option in certain circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  14. jellsprout

    jellsprout Well-Known Member

    It is better to prevent one life than to ruin two.
     
  15. Fused

    Fused Shun the nonbeliever

    Rape victims obviously did not choose to get pregnant.

    Sometimes, protection fails. Should an unready couple have to pay for the flaws in protection?

    Also, banning legal abortions will only widen the market for unsafe methods, sometimes inflicted upon oneself.

    I think our current abortion law is acceptable, seeing as how most people who wanted and abortion would have had one by the thrid trimester (this is not always the case. My sister was actually 11 weeks when her pregnancy was confirmed.)
     
  16. Nixoth

    Nixoth Ace Trainer

    i actually wrote a paper on this for one of my college classes a couple semesters ago. i think that abortion should remain legal, but require girls under 18 to get their parent's conest. i think they should have the right to know
     
  17. ~*Lyra

    ~*Lyra Pokémaniac

    An embryo is not a child and the government has no business telling women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. It's pretty simple.

    PS: Isn't it amusing how virtually all anti-abortion types are men? ;)
     
  18. denizenofevil

    denizenofevil Well-Known Member

    Not exactly. I'm a female myself and I am totally against killing a fetus unless it's in extreme cases. When a woman is pregnant, it is not just their body. It is their baby's too. We don't get to choose to be able to take away a life. The baby gets no choice in the matter. Does the baby get to choose whether it wants to be injected with acids? Does it choose to be torn apart in the womb? Where is the baby's right to choose?
     
  19. col_serra

    col_serra <------ is hot!

    who needs abortio when you can just FFFALLLCOONN PUNCH!!!!!!!1!
     
  20. Nixoth

    Nixoth Ace Trainer

    c'mon man, this is a serious debate forum. contribute something.

    well anyway, i think that as far as the argument stating that we can't kill a baby when it is inside the woman goes, i think that it depends on that case. in some instances, i have heard of the baby actually having a parasitic effect on the mother, meaning that as long as the baby is alive, the mother slowly dies.
     
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