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Your views on abortion

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Shiny hunter Reece, Dec 14, 2009.

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  1. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    You didn't provide an argument that wasn't already addressed.

    Lol what if we were aborting Hitler? It can be just as equally bad as good.

    1) No, she wouldn't do it again, because abortion isn't birth control.

    2) These 'responsibility' arguments are by far the most annoying. Honestly, they are just utopia preaching that will never happen and never fix the overall solution. You can't expect people to not have sex until they are 100% ready for a child. The best you can do is assist them in doing something they're going to do anyway (.. which is both having sex AND getting an abortion legally or not).

    And really, if a guy has a heart attack because he was irresponsible about his diet, should we just let him die?

    She's better off financially definitely.
     
  2. Generic Pokemon Trainer

    Generic Pokemon Trainer Bible Thumper

    ^^^ off topic slightly: But Hitler's mother actually considered a abortion but was talked out of it

    Even though if Hitler was aborted, that is a innocent child killed despite what he would do in the future
     
  3. Mandi.

    Mandi. 3:

    well obviously. women who choose to have an abortion, aren't heartless or not capable of having feelings. Nobody is excited over abortion, nor is the woman having the abortion actually truly wanting to have it ..but in most cases, it's better off for them.

    SEX ISN'T JUST FOR REPRODUCTION.
    SEX ISN'T JUST FOR REPRODUCTION.
    i'm not talking for the people who constantly have unprotected sex of course. I'm talking about the people who use every bit of protection while having sex, to prevent them from getting pregnant/getting a woman pregnant. Sadly not all protection is 100% accurate as we all know.

    I really don't see why people have to suffer with a child, when they were responsible enough to use protection, but sadly weren't lucky and it failed. They obviously aren't ready to take care of a child. And please don't give me that adoption crap. PLEASE DON'T. it doesn't work.

    Well being raped, would leave scars and most likely will cause serious mental issues just alone. And the child being born, will always be a memory on that woman. They're going to be hurt from the beginning anyways from the rape.
    People have a lot of nerve harassing women who have been raped for getting an abortion.

    LOL @ the last thing you said.
    Fetus =/= baby. Not just yet. No rights dear, no rights.

    I have no idea why this argument goes on. It's obviously the woman's choice, and it's legal, so get over it.
     
  4. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    And this is nothing but sentimentalist nonsense that can't be taken seriously in this debate.

    Please list something other than trying to appeal to my emotions such as saying it's a 'child' or using the word 'innocent' loosely. Put more thoughts into this debate before you post.
     
  5. Jojo-

    Jojo- I ♥ Psychic Types

    Although I do believe that wiping out a child from our planet is wrong, I also believe that it should be the woman's choice. What if she wouldn't be able to support the baby in terms in food, shelter or even proper clothing? I'd rather think that the woman has the decency to not let a baby starve, become diseased ridden, or seriously unclothed.
     
  6. natie

    natie Mr. F

    Sure, the fetus is alive, but it isn't 'alive'.

    Sounds weird, but you get the gist.
     
  7. Mewtwo_soul

    Mewtwo_soul Servant of Mewtwo #1


    That's not the same thing at all. Everything in the world would change if Hitler had been aborted, some good would have came from it however, his movements did change many things about the world. So the outcome is still negative with a more positive spin in it. Everything changes the potential of a life by aborting one child. Had I not survived and been aborted:

    -My parent's marriage wouldn't have survived. (Grand parents)
    -Never would have saved my brother from drowning.
    -Deep depression would have fallen after my grand parents true son died.

    Now let's pretend a guy walks into a store, aiming to kill the first person he sees. Where you stand a man who was aborted would have stood causing you for whatever reason to be safe from the shooting. Sure it is very cynical in concept but still remains the same idea. One potential death or life can change a majority of the world.


    There have been records of specific women getting multiple abortions over their lifespan. Painful yes, but still done. Birth control is one thing, this is an entirely different meaning.

    Having sex is not the problem, destroying a potential "savior" is. At the very least it shouldn't be supported in such a way.

    That's not the same thing. Following a strict diet is one thing, heart attacks happen to many people who are responsible. However, if a man has diabetes and starts eating tons of sugar regardless of helping said man he will die. It won't matter if we help. So why exactly waste tons of money bailing the man out over and over again if the solution is the same either way. Logically it isn't helpful.


    I'll admit I laughed. Considering she can barely find the grips on herself to go out around society. She's practically a vegetable living off of welfare. Little at that. I probably make more money in less than a month from a less-than-minimum wage job. ---->For the first 90 days.


    ----



    What my point is, is why not just pay a man to punch them. Logically it saves money to improve the town with TP money and so on. Let alone
    they could just give it to adoption as someone else stated. America at least is far from going "hungry." Although it can be argued the quality of adoption houses and the like. Before you argue "didn't I say don't mention adoption." I didn't say that they would be adopted. They can still grow up and move on to live their own life with aging. Alone, certainly, but alive and full of potential? Also very true.

    Last time I read up on percentages of accidental pregnancies with 100% protection was relatively low compared to those with unprotected sex. The only question I have is though, if abortion normally damages the lady in question in the first place how is having the child any worse, when it normally doesn't cause permanent scarring. (Although weight gain can happen and body distortion I will give you)

    The problem I have with this is most women who still have the child normally end up with a better life than those who don't. Although this is a percentage / Statistical thing, many women who end up raped and have an abortion normally end up insane or otherwise. This is also true for those who have had the child but at a lower rate. However, being the lower rate makes what I'm trying to say clear. Overall it is more effective to have the child. Sometimes the parent will warm up to the child and end up disregarding that they are a memory of the rapist. Note: I don't harass women who have abortions. I just think in general abortions should be stopped. I'd rather see that exaggeration put into practice just for the better results of said exaggeration.

    Note: Ignore the other post, I'll delete it.
     
  8. ShinySandshrew

    ShinySandshrew †God Follower†

    Do you realize that you just said legal=right? Slavery was legal once. Does that mean it was right when it was legal?

    So people should have the freedom to choose to do wrong? Why?

    Really? That'd be like saying a fetus of a dolphin is alive but isn't "alive" so we can get rid of it if we want to. See my point?

    Mewtwo_soul, I don't really think that punching someone in the stomach is a better alternative to abortion performed by a doctor. I don't think that the government should fund them, though. Also would you mind giving some sources for the statistics you mentioned?
     
  9. Generic Pokemon Trainer

    Generic Pokemon Trainer Bible Thumper

    Yes you are *nods*
     
  10. Mewtwo_soul

    Mewtwo_soul Servant of Mewtwo #1

    Just to make sure it's clear: I don't realy believe punching someone in the stomach until they have an "abortion" is better. The ten dollar thing is an exaggeration but there are probably people who would do it without getting money. On that note: Sorry for taking so long to respond I was wrestling with my dial up for about 10 minutes trying to delete just one of my triple posts on accident. I'll go find those sources again. (Although it seems stupid to mention that considering we're already within the debate) I haven't had to use those sources since my report in HighSchool as I haven't been on forums with topics on this subject for awhile.

    One question though: Will information from 2006 be qualified as "trusty" in regards to the general statistics or should it be more recent? My highschool teacher claimed that in arguments on such things as abortion the most recent sites being cited are the most credible. If no, nevermind then. If yes, I'll get on it. (No use looking them up just to have that thrown in my face especially with dial up.) ---> Before you go "4 years=old and outdated?" My teacher claimed it should be within 2 years of claim.


    EDIT: I found some sites with interesting information pertaining to abortion and claims made: Seems fairly recent as far as I can tell:

    http://www.deveber.org/text/whealth.html The whole page is worth a read.
    http://www.abortiontv.com/Methods/GeorgeTiller.htm Worth a read.
    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1906- Simple solution.
    http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V7/n4/illegalabortions.htm Counters most pro abortion arguments .
    http://www.afterabortion.org/stetson.html Even more.

    These aren't the sites however, but just something I thought would be interesting and agree somewhat on what I said earlier.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  11. Super Nerd 7997

    Super Nerd 7997 Crazy Plant Guy

    Just saying, it isn't the point of government to legislate morality, only to protect the rights of the people. So long as the choice does not infringe on the rights of others, I see no reason why the government should try to prevent it; doing so could lead to a nanny state of opressive moral busybodies running everyone's lives, which would be bad.

    In the case of abortion, though, the argument against it is that it infringes upon the rights of the child, so the above is mostly irrelevant.
     
  12. Murky_Night

    Murky_Night Jirafa

    Generic Pokemon Trainer- Sure adopting a child is wonderful, i hope to do that in the future. But i foster child has to live with the fact that his/hers parents didn't want him/her. Foster kids usually become drug addicted atheists (nothing against atheists, i am one) who sometimes worship the devil, because they feel that god hasn't been there for them, and all lot of them attempt suicide for all sorts of reasons, if you are a christian then you believe that suicide does not lead to salvation, perhaps a parent needs an abortion because they know they can't take care of a baby, and instead of f****** a kids the parents decide that an abortion is the best option. If you would rather give a child a chance to commit suicide then you are the sick one.

    Super Nerd- in a lot of states a fetus does not have rights, New York i believe is an example
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  13. Megaton666

    Megaton666 Swampert Trainer

    while I have nothing against suicide (if someone wants to die, it's their right), I agree that not aborting when neccesary can make a child violant and mean as he's parents aren't ready and evidently don't want him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  14. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    So how does this support your point over mine? You basically said what if we have an Albert Einstein. I give you a BAD person and you say good things can STILL come out of it? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Besides, statistically speaking, children WHO COULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED, usually turn out bad because the mother was too poor and the father didn't care.

    Regardless it isn't common and it isn't an argument.

    But we still help people like this anyway. And yes, it is the same thing. You didn't bother explaining why it wasn't. If you want to preach responsibility, preach it in every facet.

    Besides, why would you want people, who could have been irresponsible in sex, be responsible for taking care of a kid? That probably explains why most potential aborted babies rarely ever turn out right.

    You laugh? Laugh your *** off to some research. Dirt poor women aren't the only ones that abort.

    Women who are coming up also abort, and guess what? It's one of the main reasons women have rose in independence, and higher salaries, because they don't have to take pregnant leaves, or ever put their life on hold. That is a significant difference.

    You did not understand what he meant by alive.. at all.

    Mewtwo Soul if you want to make more arguments, don't just throw links out there. Put these arguments on the table, but we aren't even finished with our current one. I could also find sites and have a website battle but that wouldn't really be a debate.
     
  15. Corroded Arceus

    Corroded Arceus Shiny Hunter

    I am pro-choice, to a degree.

    The child should not be past a certain stage in development. That's not for me to decide as I don't understand birth, but I don't see a reason why a woman whose baby is "alive" in the humanoid sense of the word should abort it. There's a certain point where a few cells become a life.

    Also, I think it should be circumstantial. I had the misfortune to know someone who slept around like an idiot. One day she showed up at school bragging about how she had an abortion, and it disgusted me. Rape, certain circumstances of teen pregnancy (unlike the girl I mention, who should have endured the pain of pregnancy for her stupid behavior) and a few other circumstances are acceptable as a reason. Not "oh hai we forgot/were too lazy for protection so get rid of this baby plz."

    But banning abortion alltogether won't work, because people will resort to more *ahem* dangerous methods of getting it done...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  16. pokemonloverXD

    pokemonloverXD Ash's fangirl

    To me abortion=evil, no matter what kind of a reason they have, killing a young baby, a life and mostly your own child which is your own blood is wrong! I'm against it big time!
     
  17. Neo Duality

    Neo Duality Banned

    yet you have no reason to form that opinion whatsoever. are you in any way directly affected by another woman's abortion of her baby?
     
  18. Deku_Link

    Deku_Link ,,|,,

    lol my internet is dead


    Now hold on a second:

    Existence is an act, as "to exist" is a verb. Things that are not alive are capable of existng. What verbs, in your opinion, get to be called acts?

    While it's true that you have to be alive to have the capacity for innocence or guilt, that's arguably a one-way relationship: while all agents capable of guilt are living, not all living agents are capable of guilt.

    This obviously leads into a slew of problems: Capacity for guilt/innocence seems to be largely related to the agent's biological complexity. How do you measure the guilt capacity of a unicellular organism? Is a hydra capable of guilt and innocence? What about a bumblebee? You also brought up innocent cats and animal cruelty -- interesting, because animal cruelty does not apply to all animals (you don't get charged with animal cruelty for squashing a pill bug). The question here is, where is the line drawn?

    The last two sentences of my above reply to ShinySandshrew also apply to you. See the problem? I sure hope so.

    In my opinion, they're justified because the mother wants an abortion. "I don't want to" is a good enough reason to deny anyone else access to your bodily resources. Abortion should be no different.

    But since you asked, the stats are on page 113 of this report.

    I agree with this, actually. I believe women should have the freedom to end a late-term pregnancy without killing the fetus in situations where it is possible and safe to do so (which is not considered abortion), but abortion must be allowed in all other cases.

    This I don't agree with. Doing (arguably) stupid things with your body does not require you to surrender your domain over it. Otherwise the cops should take your liver instead of your money when you get caught drinking excessively while driving.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  19. Mandi.

    Mandi. 3:

    ):< don't make me sound like that now!
    stop putting words into my mouth.

    We're talking these days. Leave that crap out.
    I think some illegal things are right too, js.

    SOME legal stuff is right. Some isn't.
    Abortion IS.

    It isn't wrong. teehee.

    TBH I don't give a crap if the thing is alive or not alive. All I'm saying is, the woman chooses what she does with it, while it's still inside HER own body.

    hahahaha.
    young baby? it's still a fetus, remember that?
    and well obviously it's your future child. Which gives you a right to choose if you want it or not. Of course once it's outside the mother, killing it would be wrong, since it's know a fully born infant. But while it's inside the mother, attached to her, apart of her, she makes the calls.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  20. Metagross Guy

    Metagross Guy ᴸ м f ᴬ σ.

    Personally i think that if the baby is in the woman,the woman has her right to decide if she loses the baby or keeps it. If she wants to lose the baby it is only right to rid the baby while it is in her. If its born, she has no right to rid (Im just saying rid because Kill is a pretty harsh word) it. And all this is pretty much what Kit Kat is trying to say..i think. :l
     
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