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Your views on abortion

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Shiny hunter Reece, Dec 14, 2009.

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  1. Murky_Night

    Murky_Night Jirafa

    I don't classify abortion as murder until it is 7 1/2 months old. i think abortion should be illegal to some agree. Drug addicts, rape victims, and extremely young woman (like age 12-16), and just parents that can't take care of a child.

    If those rules weren't in place than it should just be the woman's choice.

    And please stop talking about Hitler being aborted because the fact is he wasn't.
     
  2. Madame Helga

    Madame Helga New Member

    What? no matter what reason? ok what about rape? do you even know what emotional mental trauma the woman will go through
     
  3. ShinySandshrew

    ShinySandshrew †God Follower†

    I'm not putting words in your mouth. You did.

    Now do you see the problem with what you said?


    Just because it's your future child does not mean that you can do whatever you want with it. Same goes for attatched to you, and the other things you mentioned. What is being argued over here is whether the fetus is 1) alive 2) human and 3) deserving of the rights of humans. If the fetus is any one of those three things then, no, the mother does not have the right to just do whatever to it becuase it is inside her body. Could the same be said if it were any other critter? EDIT (Needed more explanation): Don't you think that PETA would have a say (and rightly so) if somehow a little puppy got inside a woman's body (Absurd, I know. Making a point.) and she wanted to kill it and extract it because she didn't want it in there? Wouldn't they be justified in getting involved?

    Guess I shoulda' stated that better. I was speaking in legal terms. If abortion is wrong as the person I quoted thought, but that the mother should still have the choice of what she could do, why then should the option be left open legally for the mother to do wrong?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  4. J.T.

    J.T. ಠ_ಠ

    Wrong. Just because something is alive does not make it necessarily wrong or illegal to kill it - an ant is alive, but no one goes to jail for stepping on one. So whether it's alive or not is irrelevant. Whether it's human is a bit more important, but again, your society clearly deems some people unworthy of living, as seen with the existence of the death penalty. So being human does not necessarily mean much. The big thing that should be argued here is whether the fetus is deserving of the same rights as currently living, sentient humans outside of the womb. That is what ultimately matters here.

    So really, you'd have to argue that it's all three in order for abortion to be deemed bad, not just one out of those three. I'd say you should spend more time arguing about whether it deserves the same rights as humans outside of the womb.
     
  5. evolutionrex

    evolutionrex The Awesome Atheist

    i agree with J.T

    It's sort of like when some one is on the death bed and can't speak for themselves. The doctor will have to ask for a family member's decision. They may say to pull the plug, and that person will die. It is the same thing, The baby can't think for it's self.
     
  6. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Nobody is debating whether it is scientifically alive or not.

    And your point does not work. Do we force ourselves to help the homeless?

    You know a better example would probably be a tapeworm or virus. Both life forms. Both occupy our bodies and both bother us if they stay. We remove them.

    If a puppy somehow ended in her body and she didn't want it there, they'd probably do the same thing. I don't see the point yet. These sentimental arguments are getting ridiculous by the day.
     
  7. ShinySandshrew

    ShinySandshrew †God Follower†

    Yes, being alive most certainly does matter. If it was no more than a zit, there would be no reason why the mother cannot do whatever she wants with it. To further clarify about being alive, I mean that is a living entity, (not alive like a hand) thus things do change.

    But what you are forgetting about the death penalty is that those people have done something wrong. A fetus has not done anything that is illegal. Even if you want to say that is taking resources from the mother without her permission, death is harsher punishment than we give for criminals who do the same. For example, what do we when some is convicted of embezzlement? Fines and/or jail time. Now let's say that it becomes illegal for fetuses to take resources from the mother without her consent. What then? Do they have to repay their mother for the resources they used? They would then be in debt from the moment they were born. That would be involuntary servitude.

    No, there is a difference. Abortions can legally be done for any reason under the sun. But pulling the plug on someone is done becuase of their health and the quality of the life they might live if they recover would be poor.

    Actually, people in this thread are. There have been people who have said that it is just a lump of tissue so it doesn't matter.


    No, those are not. Virus and tapeworms have no positive effects other than possibly helping you to lose weight. But fetuses are sometimes wanted and do have postive effects

    You know better than that. PETA would have a fit if she wanted to kill it. They most likely press charges on the grounds of animal cruelty. And just to make my point that they would get involved, remember the incident with President Obama and the fly?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  8. J.T.

    J.T. ಠ_ಠ

    If there is no other way to prevent someone from accessing your body without your permission (such as in the case of rape), and there is a risk to the mother, then potentially lethal force is allowed, isn't it? And there's a fairly significant difference between taking your money and taking your health.

    What the hell is with you and throwing together irrelevant details to make two things look different in a way that really doesn't matter.

    And hmm, what's this, "because of their health and quality of life"? You mean like the crap the kid might go through when a mother is forced to take care of them, or when they end up going into an adoption center and hope for someone to adopt them despite all the others that don't? Might want to reword that a bit.

    Nobody has bothered arguing whether it's alive, only whether it qualifies as a life. Maybe a bit confusing, but there's a difference.

    "Sometimes wanted" so let those women keep them, what the **** is this. By this logic, if a bunch of PETA members got tapeworms and decided they wanted to keep them for the animals' sake, then killing tapeworms should be illegal too, because now they're "sometimes wanted".

    And "positive effects"? Diets have some positive effects, but no one should be legally forced to go on one. And you apparently missed the link I gave a while back listing some of the negative effects of pregnancy.

    Question: What the hell do the thoughts of a group of radical animal rights activists have to do with anything here?
     
  9. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    That isn't the same as 'it's not alive'. That's simply saying it's a lump of tissue. This has nothing to do with the state of it being alive.

    So.. what if the fetus isn't wanted? Where's the positive effect then?

    Lol who cares what PETA does. If an animal is occupying our space (and in this case, a dog REALLY WOULD endanger you if it was literally inside of your body), it's impossible to be trialed for something like that..

    But the scenario is so ridiculous in the first place that I don't even know why you brought it up. Are you debating abortion or telling me to be scared of PETA?
     
  10. natie

    natie Mr. F

    are a bunch of assholes.

    'Nuff said.
     
  11. Mandi.

    Mandi. 3:

    you over-analyze.


    uhm no?

    like I said, it doesn't matter if the fetus is alive or not. It is not yet a born baby, therefore it is not capable to receive or use any rights.

    What and WHAT WITH YOUR EXAMPLE?
    yeah uhm, if a puppy got into anybody's body, I don't think it would live that long afterwards.
    I think that goes along with, it's putting a risk to her life, so of course (i'm an animal lover, js too.) they'd choose the human's life over the puppy ..that somehow got into her body. It might not be right, but it's how the world is.

    cause she can?

    well if the woman is considering abortion, the fetus isn't wanted really? And at the time, it isn't adding anything positive to her.

    I know times change, and if the woman does end up having the child, she could love it. But think of the reasons why the woman was considering abortion in the first place. She probably is not ready for a kid, has no money, might be living in a craphole, ect.
    Would you really want a child growing up, like millions already do?

    not saying that would always happen, but think about it. What would you rather see? A child living in filth and not having anything. Or that child not even being born into the life, which it won't even know.
     
  12. Mayfan

    Mayfan Wh-hoo!

    The ONLY exception for me is if they are raped or the mother is in danger of dying because to me

    Person already alive with a family and friends's life > Small, barely thinking baby's life

    Other than that, I believe it is absolutely immoral and it's exactly like killing a baby - oh wait - it is!
     
  13. GhostAnime

    GhostAnime Searching for her...

    Absolutely unrefutable logic.
     
  14. Antesomn

    Antesomn Picky Trainer

    I do not believe in abortion but I can't blame a person for aborting a baby when her own life is at risk or the mother has been raped only because I would not know what I would do if I was in those situations. Other then that though, I see no reason why a woman should abort.
     
  15. natie

    natie Mr. F

    Accidents happen.
     
  16. Deku_Link

    Deku_Link ,,|,,

    So what's your opinion on killing six-month-old babies who are also products of rape?
     
  17. Mayfan

    Mayfan Wh-hoo!

    I'm assuming you mean unborn babies, so correct me if I'm wrong.
    It depends, honestly. If she's emotionally wrecked and can't handle giving birth one bit, or her life is in danger, then she should.
     
  18. Yanappu

    Yanappu Cute o3o

    The government has no right to say what a women can do with her own body.

    However, I would like it if there were restrictions. For example, rape victims, incest victims, babies that will die upon birth, and so on should be allowed.

    But some random rich girl who just doesn't want to stop partying shouldn't be able to.
     
  19. Tim the turtle

    Tim the turtle Happy Mudkip

    he does not. If you equate abortion to simply murdering infants, and then you claim that abortion is okay in certain situations, you must accept that killing infants is also okay in those same situations.
     
  20. natie

    natie Mr. F

    I can't think of a woman being happy after having been raped and getting stuck with an unwanted pregnancy.

    Also, what turtleboy said.
     
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