Your views on marijuana and drugs

[Mandi.]

Approved by Ethan.
I thought it was time for another one of these, and since that other non-debate drug thread has turned sort of debatish, I might as well start the actual debate again. and i might as well make this before i get too smashed OH F U damn alchy!!
So talk about drugs there, and debate the pros and cons of usage here.

I tend to put marijuana far down the drug scale, because IMO and most people understand that it's one of the more harmless drugs, compared to the more hard and addictive ones like heroin, coke, crack, ect. But this thread will be for all and any drugs.

There really isn't a debate on the drugs being harmful or not harmful, because everything in the world is harmful in some way. Even things that we don't put into our bodies. This is more of a debate on choices and how you feel about drugs and how you feel about other people trying to tell others how they should or shouldn't do drugs.

I know drugs are bad, and some being way more addictive than others. I know that people do them out of either just having fun and partying, to escape their problems, or just experimenting. But the big thing is, do any of us have a right to tell others how to live their lives? If people are simply just experimenting with different types of drugs, just to know how it will effect them, ..is it all really that bad? Just to be curious? I mean, it's not like you're going to get addicted to heroin the first time you do it, or even the second time. As long as you know what you're doing, and you're able to control yourself, and space out your usage, according to the addictiveness of the drug.

I, myself have tried a few different drugs, just a couple times, some of them I will NEVER do again, because I know how fast I can get addicted to them. But then there's drugs like marijuana, which isn't even addicting physically, just a bit mentally addictive, like all things including video games.

It's all a matter of self-control and knowledge. You can be responsible and experiment. But then again, there's a lot of people who can't, and lose themselves. It's not the drug, it's the person.
What are your views on these substances, misc debaters?

 

[El-Epic-Rolo]

I have no real dislike of drugs, I feel if people wish to do them, then it is their decision. I myself have the occasional bit of cannabis, it is quite relaxing and is a great help during exam time to help me chill out.

 

[Krake]

I really haven't tried any drugs except for weed and alcohol. Out of those two, I prefer weed because it doesn't take that long to start feeling the effects, unlike alcohol.

I've considered shrooms because I've heard that they aren't as dangerous as far as psychedelics are concerned, but I'm still not completely sure if I won't receive any drawbacks from them.

I do oppose drugs such as cocaine, heroine, and meth because those can actually screw you up.

 

[Lil Crickee]

i'm fine with things like weed, booze, shrooms and cigarettes. i do 3 out of the 4, and i've had no real problems with them..yet, i know cigs and booze cause harm yeah yeah yeah. i wanna try M, salvia or some shrooms probably along the road. :U weed i do every so often..like once a month or so?

when it comes to things like meth and crack, i really don't know whether i oppose them or not. like, i know those are the ones that can get you hooked right away and **** you up bad, but if you wanna try them, go for it.

 

[Mawile412]

First of all, I've never done drugs. I don't plan on doing any either, honestly. I just think I'm better off without them in my life. Addiction is pretty scary, from what I've read and seen. I just don't want to be involved with any of that.

I don't care if people do drugs though. I mean, that's their choice.

 

[Heldigunner1]

If the grammar is bad I'm sorry. Haven't slept

I'm gonna begin this debate by saying what most people who are against the usage of marijuana hate to hear. Marijuana is actually good for you. I also want to make clear that I rarely if ever smoke. I think it's been almost 6 months since the last time.

A quick history; the hemp plant (marijuana plant) has been around long before Christ. The ancient chinese used hemp for many different reasons: rope, cloth, tools, medicine although the primary reason was to smoke. Now we jump post to the U.S. revolutionary war, the U.S. law stated the hemp must be grown on all farms that could produce the plant. Why, much like the ancient Chinese the U.S. citizens used it for a number of everyday uses; clothing, rope, paper, etc. Actually a fun fact the declaration of independence is written on hemp paper. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and many other U.S. historic figures had many of the highest producing hemp farms. In 1890, hemp began replacing cotton as the most used fabric plant. In the 1930's, the FBN(federal B. of narcotics) began placing restrictions of the drug, because they said it was to powerful and addictive.


I personal feel the the legalization of marijuana is a must, not so that everyone and there grandmother can start smoking and say I'm not breaking the law. More fore, it economically irresponsibly not to, the world is in a F-ed up economically. We need a cheap, usefully, safe, easy to access energy source in a sense. Side market drug dealing has proven it self to be a booming industry. Its time for the government, to hop on the band wagon. Totally irrelevant, the government is like bandai america with there Battle Spirits(great game highly recommend if you never heard go check it out), they have something amazing, they know how to to fix it, but won't.

However, drugs such as opium, crack, heroine, etc. these don't fall into the same category of marijuana. Marijuana, can actually be used for alot of good, cheap source of material, medicines such as: pain relievers, anti depressants, and much more. The FBN did have one thing correct, in a sense marijuana is addictive, but not in oh my God, I need it or I'm gonna die. There is a psychological addiction in which I have seen, there is a craving for it.

I just got this on the internet

Nobody has ever died from smoking pot (please feel free to prove me wrong) and you can’t overdose on it.

Marijuana users report less depression and can cure blindness

Marijuana does not cause emphysema, unlike tobacco

Daily marijuana use doesn’t damage your brain

There has never been a study to link marijuana with psychological problems

Marijuana can prevent migraines

Marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. There is no physical addiction but a slight mental addiction can develop

Because legality isn’t a good enough reason for you to not smoke. Slavery was once legal and sodomy was once illegal; legality is a horrid barometer for morality

Marijuana Prevents Alzheimer's Disease

Because it feels good and it doesn't hurt anyone! ( I somewhat disagree on this one)

 

[Mandi.]

I just got this on the internet

NO! YOU DON'T SAY THAT! I was all "OH crap, smart stoner right here, awesome! You could have like amazed people with your intelligence. Ah well.

There are plenty of smart people who smoke weed. You are raised stupid. If you believe weed causes stupidity, then you are stupid.

Nobody has ever died from smoking pot (please feel free to prove me wrong) and you can’t overdose on it.

I have never heard about someone dying, and the cause being marijuana. All these car crashes you hear about, are due to either alcohol, or simply bad drivers. Car accidents, being one of the lead causes of death in teenagers. Which brings the conclusion that weed is not death.

Marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. There is no physical addiction but a slight mental addiction can develop

Let me just say that cigarettes and coffee do burn a big hole in my pocket. I need caffeine (coffee/energy drinks/whatever) any time of the day I'm up (even if I'm not doing crap.) ..till I go to bed. Cigarettes, of course being highly addicting as well, and EXPENSIVE. The fact that I will actually spend my good cash on a pack whenever I'm out, shows how horribly addicting they are. And don't get me started on the medical issues, we all know those.

Weed compared to these, is practically harmless.

Because it feels good and it doesn't hurt anyone! ( I somewhat disagree on this one)

No. That's right on.
Waiting for the haters.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Having a touch of OCD, I've heard (from the internet, dur) that you've got to be careful taking marajuana if you have certain psychological conditions.

I've also heard that marijuana can cause short term memory loss and lack of attention, in habitual use, depression, and in overuse, loss of "self-identification" which is dangerous for living your real life. And I can imagine THC building up in the system of a habitual user. If you wait long periods of time between using, then it gives your system time to clean out the THC.

Then again, there are studies that deny this as well as affirm this. Even if marajuana isn't "physically" addictive, there are a valid number of people who believe they are addicted and seek treatment. I'm someone who believes in calculating risk factor, so that's why my support of marijuana really only goes only as far as prescription.

 

[The_Boss_Giygas]

So the Weed thread returns.

I have never heard about someone dying, and the cause being marijuana. All these car crashes you hear about, are due to either alcohol, or simply bad drivers. Car accidents, being one of the lead causes of death in teenagers. Which brings the conclusion that weed is not death.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash

Weed is the cause of decent amounts of car accidents and it's only few in numbers since it's not legally abundant as alcohol is.
Which brings me to my point, I don't have an issue with marijuana itself it's just a plant, it's just the irresponsible use of it, if you smoke do it in your home, if a high doper runs into me in a place where he shouldn't be high then we're going to have problems especially if you don't behave the way should, I saw on the local news recently about a gang beating, some dudes under the influence of pot decided to flash gang signs, and they weren't part of any gang, at another group of people who didn't take that too kindly, well the result of that was not pretty I guess the hippies wanted to do some clowning around in the wrong place with the wrong people, oh well irresponsible use strikes again just one example, of course I know for a fact the pro weeders on here are naturally not going to believe this story or any other that has weed as the "villain" much like how Christians don't like hearing of the "bad" things Christians have done, but fact is it's very possible despite what you think.
As far making it legal, the U.S is filled with irresponsible users, that can be proven by our Alcohol problems people can't use Alcohol properly they're not gonna use weed properly either, the U.S is not alone of course, there's a reason weed is illegal in other countries as well like Mexico or the Philippines. You might be asking why there aren't any problems in Dutch land or Canada where drugs are legal, that's because they aren't as crime filled nor is their population as good as USA. Hell's even in Bolivia Cocaine is 100% legal, the Bolivian president tried to do a campaign to legalize Cocaine in other countries including the U.S as he felt Cocaine would be a great export for his country of course he wants it to be a legal export which would bring a lot of economic riches to Bolivia, that campaign didn't go anywhere though I don't think he even started it he just mentioned the idea.
In Mexico even though the cartel's business is illegal it does bring in economic power to Mexico, many city projects such as the building of new hospitals even a new police station in one of the states, are funded by people with connections to drug cartels or are members of a cartel of course they don't say it out loud, but it's obvious to the people where these things come from.

As far as the effects on the body that Marijuana causes I'm not going into this, last time it was basically my scientists/health experts vs the hippy scientist/health experts and no one found my scientists to be credible for what ever reason of course I had my doubts about the other "health experts" as well so it's just a pointless discussion of choosing who to believe and being unable to prove which set of health experts is truly right.

On the issue of Medical Marijuana, it has it's benefits, but it's nothing special, if you wan a pain killer use Morphine even Heroin > weed. The only thing Marijuana has over the other pain killers and relaxers is you get to have orgasms with Alice in Wonderland.
I don't believe in Addiction, it's just people who lack self control so that's that on that.

Basically if teens weren't too crazy for weed I might see it legally in the U.S, but as it stands I only approve it for the natives who've used it for religious purposes and I guess countries like our syrup making neighbors to the north or the Hollandish dudes in Europe are doing fine with it so I can't say weed is the root of the problem, the root is ignorance and irresponsible users which in the U.S we're "high" on.

 

[CSolarstorm]

On the issue of Medical Marijuana, it has it's benefits, but it's nothing special, if you wan a pain killer use Morphine even Heroin > weed. The only thing Marijuana has over the other pain killers and relaxers is you get to have orgasms with Alice in Wonderland.

Speaking health-wise, marijuana treats pain well enough for its risk factor and certainly damages the body less in the long term than heroin does! Why would you recommend that?!

Tylenol damages your kidneys to some degree - Vicoden does worse. Using morphine chronically makes you miserable. Any sort of opium will hurt your body after long term use. I can only imagine how much worse heroin is than morphine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Usage_and_effects

 

[GhostAnime]

First, Boss Giygas, PLEASE learn how to type long replies. Wall of texts are NOT fun to read.

So the Weed thread returns.
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash

Weed is the cause of decent amounts of car accidents and it's only few in numbers since it's not legally abundant as alcohol is.

Yawn. We've been through this before. Weed does not affect the body as much as alcohol when it comes to driving. When we've actually measured what weed does to the mind, it does not increase the chances of crashes as much as you would think. It does not ultimately change your state of mind and vision is still relatively the same.

As far making it legal, the U.S is filled with irresponsible users, that can be proven by our Alcohol problems people can't use Alcohol properly they're not gonna use weed properly either, the U.S is not alone of course

Can't use alcohol's effects as proof of the effect of another drug. If anything, alcohol should be proof that you shouldn't ban a substance.

You might be asking why there aren't any problems in Dutch land or Canada where drugs are legal, that's because they aren't as crime filled nor is their population as good as USA.

Or because marijuanai is legal and more laws are broke when it is illegal.

As far as the effects on the body that Marijuana causes I'm not going into this, last time it was basically my scientists/health experts vs the hippy scientist/health experts and no one found my scientists to be credible for what ever reason of course I had my doubts about the other "health experts" as well so it's just a pointless discussion of choosing who to believe and being unable to prove which set of health experts is truly right.

You really thought our debate was like that? No, it was simple as you not reading your own sources. Your sources were dubious at best and used cloudy correlations to prove weed's effects. Mine used DIRECT effects.

Let's see what you've found this time around though; from the looks of things, your strategy hasn't changed!

 

[The_Boss_Giygas]

First, Boss Giygas, PLEASE learn how to type long replies. Wall of texts are NOT fun to read.

If you don't like it don't read it.

Yawn. We've been through this before. Weed does not affect the body as much as alcohol when it comes to driving. When we've actually measured what weed does to the mind, it does not increase the chances of crashes as much as you would think. It does not ultimately change your state of mind and vision is still relatively the same.

Sorry this won't work, the test have been done and it's shown that weed does in fact cause car accidents if you drive while under the influence, the link is there, read it, and yes it changes your state of mind that's an accepted fact by most of the scientific and health expert community.

Can't use alcohol's effects as proof of the effect of another drug. If anything, alcohol should be proof that you shouldn't ban a substance.

You missed the point, Alcohol abuse shows the irresponsibility of the American population, irresponsibility with anything be it weed, guns, knives, or alcohol is a bad thing, if you don't think drunk driving is irresponsible driving that's all you.

Or because marijuanai is legal and more laws are broke when it is illegal.

I don't think so.

You really thought our debate was like that? No, it was simple as you not reading your own sources. Your sources were dubious at best and used cloudy correlations to prove weed's effects. Mine used DIRECT effects.

Actually my sources where very good, dubious at best is your own opinion your sources where a joke I honestly couldn't find anything useful in them, see how it works, it's opinion based who you want to believe and why in your opinion your pro weed science is best oh well what can you do against people's opinions.

Let's see what you've found this time around though; from the looks of things, your strategy hasn't changed!

My strategy hasn't changed because it was never flawed to begin with, if you yourself didn't think it was good it doesn't mean it was bad, it just means you didn't like it, there are others elsewhere who found my information correct.

Speaking health-wise, marijuana treats pain well enough for its risk factor and certainly damages the body less in the long term than heroin does! Why would you recommend that?!

Why not recommend it, Morphine and Heroine are more effective than weed, I'm sure health risk is the last thing on most people's minds who have unbearable pain or those who want to try a new out of body experience.

Tylenol damages your kidneys to some degree - Vicoden does worse. Using morphine chronically makes you miserable. Any sort of opium will hurt your body after long term use. I can only imagine how much worse heroin is than morphine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Usage_and_effects

In the long run weed will also hurt you, smoke is smoke no matter what burning plant produces it, smoke will in fact damage your lungs eventually, but I guess compared to the short term effects of Heroine and Morphine it's not as bad, but still not not as effective.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Why not recommend it, Morphine and Heroine are more effective than weed, I'm sure health risk is the last thing on most people's minds who have unbearable pain or those who want to try a new out of body experience.

Heroin and other such potent opiates deserve to be kept within a regulated environment in hospitals only. If they have such unbearable pain that can't be taken care of with hydrocodone or stronger derivatives of, like norco, they should be in a hospital where they will be supervised and taken care of while given the drug.

I never understood people who would damage thier body just to stimulate themselves, especially when they have a body to walk, run, after all the work I've put into saving my own body from damage I never asked for.

In the long run weed will also hurt you, smoke is smoke no matter what burning plant produces it, smoke will in fact damage your lungs eventually, but I guess compared to the short term effects of Heroine and Morphine it's not as bad, but still not not as effective.

Not a valid counterpoint. First, for medical purposes, marijuana is much better administered in edible form, when in fact it is more potent, so the factor of lung damage is absent. Second, prescription marijuana hurts you about as much a watching TV for 72 hours straight. It dumbs you down, sure, but you can bounce back. Heroin damages your circulatory system, your liver, and is biologically addictive.

 

[GhostAnime]

If you don't like it don't read it.

It's basic debate etiquette. It's no different from expecting average grammar. The problem with wall of texts is that it's a bunch of information that is not properly sorted and it takes the reader longer than normal to process each and every point. I don't know if it's actually part of the debate rules, but it is basic etiquette when going into long discussions. If you're going to simply say "Well it's just you", then your credibility is going to drop similar to a person wh0 typ3z liek diz.

Sorry this won't work, the test have been done and it's shown that weed does in fact cause car accidents if you drive while under the influence, the link is there, read it, and yes it changes your state of mind that's an accepted fact by most of the scientific and health expert community.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm

Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450

Nevertheless, this impairment does not appear to play a significant role in on-road traffic accidents. A 2002 review of seven separate studies involving 7,934 drivers reported, “Crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes.” This result is likely because subject under the influence of marijuana are aware of their impairment and compensate for it accordingly, such as by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required.

Yes, you proved a link; however, there is a difference between proving something, and then proving the sigificance of it.

Marijuana may alter or impair your state of mind, but it does not affect your judgment like alcohol. People who drive after smoking marijuana KNOW they are high and at least compensate for it. Meanwhile, drunk users aren't even aware they're drunk.

You missed the point, Alcohol abuse shows the irresponsibility of the American population, irresponsibility with anything be it weed, guns, knives, or alcohol is a bad thing, if you don't think drunk driving is irresponsible driving that's all you.

You can't use irresponsibility of alcohol onto other drugs and say it deserves to be banned for that reason; especially considering marijuana (when it WAS legal) wasn't used irresponsibly.

Furthermore, you could use this same logic on practically ANYTHING. That includes the things you listed. Should we ban knives? Fast food? Video games?

I don't think so.

Show me a significant link of marijuana and crime outside of possession.

Actually my sources where very good, dubious at best is your own opinion your sources where a joke I honestly couldn't find anything useful in them, see how it works, it's opinion based who you want to believe and why in your opinion your pro weed science is best oh well what can you do against people's opinions.

Ok I'll show you a source from a random blog and say it's better than a scientific source based on my opinion. Neener neener ner.

I actually said more than that but you just hide behind the opinion excuse expecting anybody to accept any source blindly. One of the fundamental problems in the sources you used last time was that it committed the same ol' Correlation=/=Causation fallacy. It wasn't just dubious; it just didn't provide much other than improperly and illogiclaly linking weed to any bad thing that occurs.

You never really responded to that point and merely said "That's your opinion." If sources were nothing but opinions, what would be the point of using them?

Simply put, your sources rarely, if ever, addressed the actual argument of weed directly causing anything harmful. It's as if you didn't understand them yourself.

 

[The_Boss_Giygas]

It's basic debate etiquette. It's no different from expecting average grammar. The problem with wall of texts is that it's a bunch of information that is not properly sorted and it takes the reader longer than normal to process each and every point. I don't know if it's actually part of the debate rules, but it is basic etiquette when going into long discussions. If you're going to simply say "Well it's just you", then your credibility is going to drop similar to a person wh0 typ3z liek diz.

I tend to type like how an article on a news paper or magazine would be typed a big block of text, of course the tab button and space thing when you start a new paragraph doesn't work on here, but it's basically the same and I don't see a problem with this style of typing anyone who reads news papers or magazine articles shouldn't have a problem with this either.
I'm not sure how you write analysis or essays since all you ever do is make small comments piece by piece of other people's larger posts.

Marijuana may alter or impair your state of mind, but it does not affect your judgment like alcohol. People who drive after smoking marijuana KNOW they are high and at least compensate for it. Meanwhile, drunk users aren't even aware they're drunk.

Marijuana does affect your judgement, perception, and memory. Those who get truly high often don't remember all the details to what they where doing while high.

You can't use irresponsibility of alcohol onto other drugs and say it deserves to be banned for that reason;

Yes I can, just like how we can determine the behavior of some dinosaurs by looking at how reptiles and birds of today act, we can determine how people will most likely use an illegal drug based on how they abuse a current legal drug (alcohol) it's simple science.

especially considering marijuana (when it WAS legal) wasn't used irresponsibly.

Times change today's public isn't yesterday's public.

Furthermore, you could use this same logic on practically ANYTHING. That includes the things you listed. Should we ban knives? Fast food? Video games?

Knives are an essential tool and so are guns to some extend, drugs well drugs aren't. Fast food & games don't cause what alcohol and other drugs cause that being danger on the road or elsewhere.

Show me a significant link of marijuana and crime outside of possession.

I was referring to crime in general not just weed related, America has more crime than Canada or Dutch land which shows we aren't exactly the most responsible, rational, law obeying people out there.

Ok I'll show you a source from a random blog and say it's better than a scientific source based on my opinion. Neener neener ner.
I actually said more than that but you just hide behind the opinion excuse expecting anybody to accept any source blindly.

Yes people do follow blindly, it's obvious, those in favor of weed will like the sources that list the positive effects of weed, those against it will favor the sources listing the negative side effects of weed.

You never really responded to that point and merely said "That's your opinion." If sources were nothing but opinions, what would be the point of using them?

The sources are not opinions they list facts, if we choose to believe those facts or not is our choice based on our opinion. Your sources claim to have scientific research & facts, I claim the same for my sources yet you do not accept my sources and I may not accept your sources in my opinion your facts are wrong and in your opinion my facts are wrong they're just made up by DARE or truth.org or some other flawed organization, something like this. Making the facts vs facts debate pointless.

Simply put, your sources rarely, if ever, addressed the actual argument of weed directly causing anything harmful. It's as if you didn't understand them yourself.

Not sure what you mean, the sources here tell you exactly what weed is said to do or not do including mind altering abilities which are dangerous, if you're talking about what I said that weed may or may not cause people to commit crimes that part I don't agree with anymore for the moment as I can't find much info on it.

Drug facts (or are they?)
http://www.examiner.com/science-news-in-miami/new-findings-on-the-negative-effects-of-marijuana
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/marijuana4.htm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/marijbroch/Marijteenstxt.html#happens
http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

 

[GhostAnime]

I tend to type like how an article on a news paper or magazine would be typed a big block of text, of course the tab button and space thing when you start a new paragraph doesn't work on here, but it's basically the same and I don't see a problem with this style of typing anyone who reads news papers or magazine articles shouldn't have a problem with this either.
I'm not sure how you write analysis or essays since all you ever do is make small comments piece by piece of other people's larger posts.

News paper articles still separate by topic sentences and it's not a big block of text with no identation whatsoever.

In a standard English class, you'd fail for that.

Marijuana does affect your judgement, perception, and memory. Those who get truly high often don't remember all the details to what they where doing while high.

First source talks about respiratory issues only.

Second source only talks about the side effects being possible. Not everyone necessarily gets the same effects or even to the same extent. Those are merely possibilities

Third source talks about extreme thirst and hunger. Then moves on to the extremes.

The fourth source is the only one that actually relates to the point of driving, and they merely talk about possibilities once again. It doesn't bring anything new to the table at all.

Marijuana is proven to be safer to use on the road than alcohol and is about as dangerous as doing anything else while driving. It is not significant enough to ban the whole product.

Yes I can, just like how we can determine the behavior of some dinosaurs by looking at how reptiles and birds of today act, we can determine how people will most likely use an illegal drug based on how they abuse a current legal drug (alcohol) it's simple science.

No, it's a false analogy. Marijuana and alcohol are barely comparable. Alcohol kills more people than marijuana legally or illegally.

Like I said, you could do that with anything. Why single out marijuana? What if people are irresponsible with video games (which, clearly, looking at the health effects of playing them so much..).

Even if we did take this point at face value, it would still be pro-legality for the simple fact that banning alcohol did more bad than good. Even if you want to blame marijuana's effects on "irresponsibility", this is the same exact logic used to ban alcohol. Look how that turned out.

Times change today's public isn't yesterday's public.

How are we going to know how marijuana is received if we don't give it a chance? You're basically assuming it's changed on absolutely nothing but illegality.

Knives are an essential tool and so are guns to some extend, drugs well drugs aren't. Fast food & games don't cause what alcohol and other drugs cause that being danger on the road or elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be on the road. They just have to be used irresponsibly. People play games until they get obese, diabeties, and there's even been death reports. Fast food is arguably the leading cause of the aforementioned diseases. They are comparable to lung cancer. I don't see why you can't give those things the same scrutiny.

I was referring to crime in general not just weed related, America has more crime than Canada or Dutch land which shows we aren't exactly the most responsible, rational, law obeying people out there.

And you're going to use that to justify a ban on marijuana? Where are the two even linked? Like I said, if you think America is so irresponsible, why is marijuana getting singled out?

Yes people do follow blindly, it's obvious, those in favor of weed will like the sources that list the positive effects of weed, those against it will favor the sources listing the negative side effects of weed.


The sources are not opinions they list facts, if we choose to believe those facts or not is our choice based on our opinion. Your sources claim to have scientific research & facts, I claim the same for my sources yet you do not accept my sources and I may not accept your sources in my opinion your facts are wrong and in your opinion my facts are wrong they're just made up by DARE or truth.org or some other flawed organization, something like this. Making the facts vs facts debate pointless.


Not sure what you mean, the sources here tell you exactly what weed is said to do or not do including mind altering abilities which are dangerous, if you're talking about what I said that weed may or may not cause people to commit crimes that part I don't agree with anymore for the moment as I can't find much info on it.

Drug facts (or are they?)
http://www.examiner.com/science-news-in-miami/new-findings-on-the-negative-effects-of-marijuana
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/drugs-alcohol/marijuana4.htm
http://www.nida.nih.gov/marijbroch/Marijteenstxt.html#happens
http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

I think you need to understand the difference between an argument and a source or fact.

Argument is a logical foundation you use to favor one standpoint. Facts are merely the premise; they don't DO The arguing for you. The only sources you show are ones that say negative effects of marijuana, but they do not show anything related to the legality of it. I can show you negative effects on video games, fast food, and many cough medicines all the same, but until I have an argument, I'm not going to get anywhere when it comes to regulation. YOU have to create that argument yourself.

Until you create that argument, you can't just flash around sources acting like you can one-up someone. Make an actual argument and quit spouting D.A.R.E. facts like it means anything.

 

[The_Boss_Giygas]

Marijuana is proven to be safer to use on the road than alcohol and is about as dangerous as doing anything else while driving. It is not significant enough to ban the whole product.

Safer than Alcohol does not mean safe, I don't care if weed is banned or not it's still hazardous no matter how many people such as your self fail to admit or realize, seriously if you take something that effects your mind no way should you be driving no matter how "experienced" you are with the thing.

No, it's a false analogy. Marijuana and alcohol are barely comparable. Alcohol kills more people than marijuana legally or illegally.

It's a perfect analogy as it demonstrates the behavior of people, finding out trends as you psychologist would say. The lethality of each drug and how they compare is not part of this at all, this part is talking about human behavior and how items are irresponsibly used by us, if you want to know how one illegal drug will be used, to get a good idea you'd have to look at how legal drugs are already used, alcohol, aspirin, even cough syrup are all abused, weed won't be any different simply because there just aren't enough responsible users out there and it does suck for them, but that's how it is.

Like I said, you could do that with anything. Why single out marijuana? What if people are irresponsible with video games (which, clearly, looking at the health effects of playing them so much..).

I single out weed here because that's what this thread is about, if I had to make a list on all the things I think should be banned or changed, we'd be here all day.

How are we going to know how marijuana is received if we don't give it a chance? You're basically assuming it's changed on absolutely nothing but illegality.

People already do weed illegally we already know what people with weed will do, they'll smoke it where and when they shouldn't and that will cause trouble as it already has, even though illegal weed is already getting it's chance with the pot heads smoking it illegally and as car crashes studies show as well as my news example earlier it hasn't been an overly positive result though I won't say it's a totally negative thing, again weed isn't he problem it's just a plant, it's the user who can't seem to use it right no matter how much of an "expert" they think they are in using marijuana, most arrests for weed possession are done out in the street aka public places, not a home where you should be when getting high.

It doesn't have to be on the road. They just have to be used irresponsibly. People play games until they get obese, diabeties, and there's even been death reports. Fast food is arguably the leading cause of the aforementioned diseases. They are comparable to lung cancer. I don't see why you can't give those things the same scrutiny.

Why not give them scrutiny, again this is a drug thread if you want to make one for fast food and video games go ahead we'll discuss it there why those things should or shouldn't be regulated.

And you're going to use that to justify a ban on marijuana? Where are the two even linked? Like I said, if you think America is so irresponsible, why is marijuana getting singled out?

Weed is just one thing American's can't use correctly, as I said if I had to list everything it would take a while, so being a drug thread we'll just stick the drug part.

Argument is a logical foundation you use to favor one standpoint. Facts are merely the premise; they don't DO The arguing for you. The only sources you show are ones that say negative effects of marijuana, but they do not show anything related to the legality of it. I can show you negative effects on video games, fast food, and many cough medicines all the same, but until I have an argument, I'm not going to get anywhere when it comes to regulation. YOU have to create that argument yourself.
Until you create that argument, you can't just flash around sources acting like you can one-up someone. Make an actual argument and quit spouting D.A.R.E. facts like it means anything.

The argument is there, my point is very clear, maybe too many walls of text make you miss the point or maybe you get lost somewhere, here it is again in a simpler form:

• The U.S has many irresponsible users.
• Weed is a drug with some negative factors
• Negative factor causing items should not be so easy to be obtained by irresponsible users.

That's my point. All the other things such as the benefits and the real reason why weed became illegal in the first place are things aside which don't mean anything against my 3 points up here. Are my points strong enough to say weed should be banned? Maybe, maybe not, depends on your point of view, do the medical benefits outweigh the negatives, am I stereotyping Americans too harshly, are the negatives really so unimportant they might as well just be ignored am I making the negatives seem too important? I know one thing, so far nothing is going to stop me from telling everyone my views on this.

 

[GhostAnime]

Safer than Alcohol does not mean safe, I don't care if weed is banned or not it's still hazardous no matter how many people such as your self fail to admit or realize, seriously if you take something that effects your mind no way should you be driving no matter how "experienced" you are with the thing.

I'm not advocating that people drive while smoking weed. I'm asking you what is the significance of this study and why it's grounds to ban an entire substance.

It's a perfect analogy as it demonstrates the behavior of people, finding out trends as you psychologist would say.

Psychologists find trends in the DIRECT CAUSE; not "similar" situations that you do not simulate at all. You do not measure any scientific experiment by replacing it with something else. You must use that specific thing to measure it. You have no valid experiment.

I single out weed here because that's what this thread is about, if I had to make a list on all the things I think should be banned or changed, we'd be here all day.

That's exactly why it's illogical. You would be here all day because it could be used virtually for anything. If it can be used for anything, that tells you the logic is not sound. Do you really think banning virtually anything is a logical conclusion? I hope not.

People already do weed illegally we already know what people with weed will do, they'll smoke it where and when they shouldn't and that will cause trouble as it already has, even though illegal weed is already getting it's chance with the pot heads smoking it illegally and as car crashes studies show as well as my news example earlier it hasn't been an overly positive result though I won't say it's a totally negative thing, again weed isn't he problem it's just a plant, it's the user who can't seem to use it right no matter how much of an "expert" they think they are in using marijuana, most arrests for weed possession are done out in the street aka public places, not a home where you should be when getting high.

Again, the problem is that you're measuring from illegality as opposed to legality.

So, they smoke it when they shouldn't... Um, where's the part where where that's wrong? How does it affect other people? You haven't even proven that marijuana driving is even significant yet, so I don't know why you brought it up here.

here it is again in a simpler form:

• The U.S has many irresponsible users.
• Weed is a drug with some negative factors
• Negative factor causing items should not be so easy to be obtained by irresponsible users.

• The U.S. has many irresponsible users.
• Video games has some negative effects.
• Negative factor causing items should not be easy to be obtained by irresponsible users.

Replace video games with anything; knives, fast food, asprin, plastic bags; ANYTHING. Your logic is too vague and it is NOT sound. This argument is bad.

edit: Also, don't forget that in order for your analogy to even be consistent, you have to go all the way with it. That includes the fact that banning alcohol was a bad idea.

 

[The_Boss_Giygas]

I'm not advocating that people drive while smoking weed. I'm asking you what is the significance of this study and why it's grounds to ban an entire substance.

The significance is that it happens and it shows irresponsibility which is one of my main points, people can't use it responsibly and some proof of it is in those driving while under the influence, something they shouldn't be doing. Another significant point at least for those who've been involved in such accidents is that it can do some damage, you may not feel it since it's never happened to you or anyone you know, but it hurts people when they're involved in these things I would imagine, there's nothing more stupid than driving around then some dude thinking something else crashes into you killing you that's the dumbest way to go.
As far as banning an entire substance, I'm not on the 100% banning side, I do agree Marijuana should be available for medical use I think it's fair enough for that though I still prefer Morphine or even Heroine, but I don't think it's smart to let just anybody buy it and use it any way they please, you can make rules such as "no smoking" areas but people break these rules already anyways.

Psychologists find trends in the DIRECT CAUSE; not "similar" situations that you do not simulate at all. You do not measure any scientific experiment by replacing it with something else. You must use that specific thing to measure it. You have no valid experiment.

The experiment is done everywhere all the time, the experiment was started when drugs where invented, here is the experiment: create drugs and give them to humanity and see what happens, well at this point at least in the U.S drugs are being abused legal or not, and abuse of these drugs causes some hazardous results, there is your experiment's result so far, I know it's not your kind of experiment, but I treat life as an experiment sometimes.

So, they smoke it when they shouldn't... Um, where's the part where where that's wrong? How does it affect other people? You haven't even proven that marijuana driving is even significant yet, so I don't know why you brought it up here.

How does it affect other people? The road isn't just for you, some of those car accidents involved hitting other people is that not a clear enough effect on others it would certainly piss me off if a drugged man crashed his car into mines. It's "not significant" yet because the drug isn't used on a massive scale like Alcohol, legalize it and it will be, that's how it is, legalizing means increase in users not decrease in accidents it's simple math, more users means chances and incidents rise.

[/LIST]
[*]The U.S. has many irresponsible users.
[*]Video games has some negative effects.
[*]Negative factor causing items should not be easy to be obtained by irresponsible users.

• Replace video games with anything; knives, fast food, asprin, plastic bags; ANYTHING. Your logic is too vague and it is NOT sound. This argument is bad.

• 
  Okay, so then tell me how are U.S people irresponsible? Well I already told you that.
  What are the negative effects of video games? I gave you sources listing health facts about weed and examples of how it's used irresponsibly, if you can do the same for video games as I have with weed then you have something I'm interested in. Do video games cause health issues long term or short term, is playing too much irresponsible usage? And so on.
  Why shouldn't negative factor causing items be obtained easily, well refer to the first 2 points and you'll find out why.
  This is simple and it makes sense if you have examples or facts for your main points. I could easily do one for why Marijuana is good as I also have a couple of sources of the pro side, but I'll let the pro weed users come up with it on their own.

 

[Neo Duality]

Drugs are universally bad, IMO.