Your views on marijuana and drugs

[Profesco]

I'm going to maintain my usual position that doing recreational drugs is, ethically speaking, ambiguous at best and, morally speaking, categorically wrong.

Working within that framework, I try to respect people's "individual freedom" - not because I accept that it's perfectly okay for somebody to wreck their body and mind if they so choose, which is really only a defense used by those who are trying to escape any objective moral consideration of whether what it is they're doing is actually worth doing - but because I acknowledge that we are all "free" to have faults, and having a particular fault does not make a person completely unworthy of respectful consideration.

 

[CSolarstorm]

I'm going to maintain my usual position that doing recreational drugs is, ethically speaking, ambiguous at best and, morally speaking, categorically wrong.

Working within that framework, I try to respect people's "individual freedom" - not because I accept that it's perfectly okay for somebody to wreck their body and mind if they so choose, which is really only a defense used by those who are trying to escape any objective moral consideration of whether what it is they're doing is actually worth doing - but because I acknowledge that we are all "free" to have faults, and having a particular fault does not make a person completely unworthy of respectful consideration.

While I was reading your post, I thought "This would be a perfect post if he added - " and then I saw the last part and realized that post really was worded just right. I think that is an extremely respectable anti-drug position. I've never understood why a person would destroy theselves in the name of recreation - well, until maybe about a year or two ago, but before that I didn't understand it. But even things that are completely understandable can be wrong.

 

[Mandi.]

Well, you'd probably know better than me if your OCD is severe. My OCD doesn't manifest in outer compulsions, just inner ruminations and my doubts and reactions to them; so at least once the paranoia phase of being stoned amplified my OCD hard, and I was terrified for...maybe five minutes. Then I forgot what I was scared of. XD

Man, it sucks. I feel like a mental patient.
LOL, I only get paranoid when I'm smoking somewhere I'm not familiar with.

Well whatever you're focused on at the moment, you're really focused on, but the problem is, if you decide think about anything else, you start focusing on that really hard, and consquently forget about the last thing.

UGH, true, but ..once you're experienced, you know how to control yourself with that. ;3 Especially if you're doing something that really requires your attention (see; driving).

Keep it illegal, I'll end with that.

Get off my thread. >:B

I'm going to maintain my usual position that doing recreational drugs is, ethically speaking, ambiguous at best and, morally speaking, categorically wrong.

Working within that framework, I try to respect people's "individual freedom" - not because I accept that it's perfectly okay for somebody to wreck their body and mind if they so choose, which is really only a defense used by those who are trying to escape any objective moral consideration of whether what it is they're doing is actually worth doing - but because I acknowledge that we are all "free" to have faults, and having a particular fault does not make a person completely unworthy of respectful consideration.

I love how different all our views are, yet we get along still! AWESOME MAN!

That's basically my thing though. I'm not saying drugs are right or anything. If people want to do them, it's their choice. I mean, some (a lot of people) go overboard and ruin their lives over them. But there are people who only experiment a few times with different drugs and/or smoke weed for recreational use.

 

[ShinySandshrew]

Man, it sucks. I feel like a mental patient.
LOL, I only get paranoid when I'm smoking somewhere I'm not familiar with.

And you think that paranoia isn't a good reason to stop smoking weed?

UGH, true, but ..once you're experienced, you know how to control yourself with that. ;3 Especially if you're doing something that really requires your attention (see; driving).

Isn't driving under the influence of alcohol illegal for the exact same reason? Now let's take the paranoia you mentiod before and pair that side-effect with the train of thought problem. Don't you think that the effects you mentioned could create worse accidents/problems than something like alchohol?

That's basically my thing though. I'm not saying drugs are right or anything. If people want to do them, it's their choice. I mean, some (a lot of people) go overboard and ruin their lives over them. But there are people who only experiment a few times with different drugs and/or smoke weed for recreational use.

And the point is...? If they have harmful side effects like the ones you mentioned, why should it be legal to use them "a few times" for recreational purpose?

 

[GhostAnime]

And you think that paranoia isn't a good reason to stop smoking weed?

Key phrase somewhere unfamiliar. That doesn't mean marijuana directly causes paranoia.

Isn't driving under the influence of alcohol illegal for the exact same reason? Now let's take the paranoia you mentiod before and pair that side-effect with the train of thought problem. Don't you think that the effects you mentioned could create worse accidents/problems than something like alchohol?

It wouldn't be worse. This was already demonstrated earlier in the topic.

And the point is...? If they have harmful side effects like the ones you mentioned, why should it be legal to use them "a few times" for recreational purpose?

Because if harmful effects was enough to make something illegal, nothing would have recreational purpose.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Well, being from that kind of environment, I've known of my relatives driving long distances on pot, and when I ask my parents why they're allowed to do that, they say that pot increases their concentration on the road and the route they're taking. I accepted that explanation. But my family's also racked up a DUI and driven while drinking countless times, even driving me and telling me that they knew what they were doing, and they have no explanation for that.

I think ShinySandshrew brings up an interesting point. If pot can cause paranoia, wouldn't driving be one of those instances where it would cause paranoia? Think about it, you're trapped in a small metal vehicle and it's constantly moving. That's clausterphobia and uncontrollable rhythm at once. And even if you have a familiar route and destination in mind, driving requires reflexes to the movements of cars and constantly changing surroundings. And having the consistant right to drive while stoned doesn't take into account the need to drive on unfamiliar routes to new destinations, which, by your standards could cause paranoia.

Again, I'm for medically prescribed marijuana for adults but I don't think it should be treated like alchohol. In my opinion it's more like a milder version of a seizure medication.

 

[Mandi.]

And you think that paranoia isn't a good reason to stop smoking weed?

The paranoia I get when I'M SOMEWHERE UNFAMILIAR WITH isn't even bad enough to even consider stopping weed all together. I've definitely cut down, so give me some credit. ):

Isn't driving under the influence of alcohol illegal for the exact same reason? Now let's take the paranoia you mentiod before and pair that side-effect with the train of thought problem. Don't you think that the effects you mentioned could create worse accidents/problems than something like alchohol?

I'm familiar with the inside of my car.
And no. Alcohol, you think you're amazing and can do anything if you say so. Weed, you know when you can or cannot drive.

And the point is...? If they have harmful side effects like the ones you mentioned, why should it be legal to use them "a few times" for recreational purpose?

..Fast food makes you fat. Video games make you lazy and fat. Caffeine is highly addicting, just like the first two, and plus after you're addicted to it, it doesn't even affect you the way you want it to, though you still need it more and more everytime. Cigarettes ............lol.
Those things are legal.

Well, being from that kind of environment, I've known of my relatives driving long distances on pot, and when I ask my parents why they're allowed to do that, they say that pot increases their concentration on the road and the route they're taking.

My best friend and her people drove from up(Connecticut) here to North Carolina(about 12 hours because I drove there a few times too), high as fuck the whole time. Not to mention they were also all fucked up due to not sleeping because of all the packing + adderall and no sleep = really crazy.
They made it perfectly fine. And I was at the house right before they left, and saw how they were.

I think ShinySandshrew brings up an interesting point. If pot can cause paranoia, wouldn't driving be one of those instances where it would cause paranoia? Think about it, you're trapped in a small metal vehicle and it's constantly moving. That's clausterphobia and uncontrollable rhythm at once. And even if you have a familiar route and destination in mind, driving requires reflexes to the movements of cars and constantly changing surroundings. And having the consistant right to drive while stoned doesn't take into account the need to drive on unfamiliar routes to new destinations, which, by your standards could cause paranoia.

I admit, driving high, when it's really dark, and people have their headlights shining in my eyes kind of freaks me out. But not to the point for it to cause me to freak out and cause an accident.
Like I said, as long as I'm driving in MY car, I'm fine. Especially if I have someone with me.

It really isn't all that complicated if you think about it.

 

[GhostAnime]

Well, it's hard for some of us to think about it due to our lack of experience with people who actually smoke weed and just hearing it on TV.

 

[Zenotwapal]

Let me say this:

You do realize that no matter how "in control" you think you are on any medical drug or recreational drug, your really not. You may THINK you know whats going on, but in reality, you don't. The whole point of drugs is to get a high, and when that said high comes in, it affects your mental state. It makes you erradic, skidish, and affects your ability to make judgement heavily. You cannot fuction normally while on any drug that affects the nervous system. Don't even try to say this, because you can't. You just can't.
This is common medical knowledge that you can go up to mostly any doctor, and they'll tell you some form of this explanation.

Now, my stance on drugs? I disapprove of them, but I really don't care how you mess up your life.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Let me say this:

You do realize that no matter how "in control" you think you are on any medical drug or recreational drug, your really not. You may THINK you know whats going on, but in reality, you don't. The whole point of drugs is to get a high, and when that said high comes in, it affects your mental state. It makes you erradic, skidish, and affects your ability to make judgement heavily. You cannot fuction normally while on any drug that affects the nervous system. Don't even try to say this, because you can't. You just can't.
This is common medical knowledge that you can go up to mostly any doctor, and they'll tell you some form of this explanation.

Now, my stance on drugs? I disapprove of them, but I really don't care how you mess up your life.

The same doctor who covered me through a neurological and orthopedic surgery actually convinced me to get a prescription for pot when I didn't want to, saying it was more ethical than damaging my kidney with Vicoden. I think you're just pulling words from hammerspace, Zeno.

Now I'm aware that I'm not being consistant by saying this (cite one time when I am) but I want to invoke Profesco's complaint from the Problem of Incoherence thread. We're trying to communicate about the merits of drugs or lack of, right? But if your statement is true, we can never have a legit conversation about drugs, because if we say anything good about them, that's not us talking, that's the drugs. We're out of control, addicted, and in denial. Suddenly there is no positive standpoint on any drug.

And this old addiction argument doesn't make any sense then. You can be addicted to sugar and grease, for crying out loud, and Advil. And on a baser sense: can I not argue for anything that contributes to my behavior? Am I not allowed to argue about the merits or lack thereof when it comes to my religion, my country, my entertainment preferences because they contributed to the root of my behavior and I am thus biased?

I don't buy the denial argument, sorry. I've had pot before and I will again, but I am perfectly capable of speaking objectively about it.

 

[Deoxytwo]

The only drugs that I don't really have a problem with are weed, cigarettes, and alcohol. It's the serious drugs (i.e. meth, heroin, etc) that bother me.

I don't smoke weed, but most of my friends do, so allow me to interject my view.

Out of all my friends only one has poor judgement when he is high, and that's because his judgement is relatively poor even when he's sober. The rest of my friends are still fully capable of making proper judgements, such as telling the aforementioned friend not to do something stupid/dangerous.

Yes, their reaction times are slowed, but it isn't slowed to the point that it impedes what they are doing.

Being high doesn't affect their driving, either. They drive perfectly fine while they are high. Hell, they even drive fine when they are hotboxing my friend's vehicle. I certainly feel that I am safe riding with my friends while they are driving under the influence of marijuana. I would much rather be riding with someone under the influence of marijuana than someone under the influence of alcohol.

The only trouble that I have seen weed give my friends is when two of them got caught by their respective parents.

 

[Deku_Link]

I have a hard time categorizing recreational drugs as objectively wrong based on the "it's bad for you" stance. Drinking alcohol and eating junk food are socially acceptable, but alcoholism and obesity are not. Why can't it be the same for recreational drug use? I get that the latter is illegal, but positing illegality as the difference would only be shifting the goalposts.


And by "recreational drug use" I mean mild things. "Recreational drug" is a stupid label in the first place given how different (and varying in terms of threatening your physical or mental well-being) its contents are.

But if your statement is true, we can never have a legit conversation about drugs, because if we say anything good about them, that's not us talking, that's the drugs. We're out of control, addicted, and in denial. Suddenly there is no positive standpoint on any drug.

I'd just like to echo this... loudly. I hadn't touched drugs of any kind until I turned 21, yet I was very much a proponent of "moderation is key" for years and years beforehand. That hasn't changed, but to say that my "hey drugs are ok sometimes" stance is suddenly an effect of having smoked weed a couple of times would be more than a little intellectually dishonest.

 

[Mandi.]

You do realize that no matter how "in control" you think you are on any medical drug or recreational drug, your really not. You may THINK you know whats going on, but in reality, you don't. The whole point of drugs is to get a high, and when that said high comes in, it affects your mental state. It makes you erradic, skidish, and affects your ability to make judgement heavily. You cannot fuction normally while on any drug that affects the nervous system. Don't even try to say this, because you can't. You just can't.
This is common medical knowledge that you can go up to mostly any doctor, and they'll tell you some form of this explanation.

All I hear is your BLAH BLAH BLAH!!
You are one of those media controlled freaks who believe anything you hear, and now you're too delusional to accept the fact that drugs (marijuana more) does not harm as much as you think.
And you know what? I just said I can. I've smoked weed long enough to know how it affects my mental state. I know exactly what I can or cannot do, and that depends on the state of high I get. Trust me, when I'm highly f-ed up, I'm able to know and control myself.
If a doctor told me this, I would smack them in the face because I'd think of you and how you were able to brainwash the poor doctor. ):

Now, my stance on drugs? I disapprove of them, but I really don't care how you mess up your life.

Then kindly stop always being on these drug threads and throwing out some bullshit that you always say, and people always tell you the same exact thing.

On other news. Did anyone see the Miley Cyrus smoking a bong video? Apparently it was salvia, not weed. Funny thing is, that salvia is legal ..but that it some craaaaazy shit.

 

[Profesco]

I don't think Zenotwapal was saying that doing a drug renders your viewpoint on it irrational, actually.

You cannot fuction normally while on any drug that affects the nervous system.

Based on this segment of his post, I thought he was simply saying that claiming to be fully in control of one's physiological and psychological condition while under the effects of the drug is irrational, and I think we have to concede that that much, at least, is true. You may be able to function at a level sufficient to marshall your thoughts, motor skills, and social behaviors into working order, but to do each of these things takes an irregular effort and consists of a change in the way you normally perceive/experience doing them, because of the effects of the drug you're taking. After all, these drugs' natural (and intended) effects are to alter your brain chemistry.

If you've taken the drug, your brain chemistry is altered while the drug's effects last. It would be incorrect to claim otherwise. If the drug has not altered your brain chemistry, then it is doing absolutely nothing to or for you, and so you may as well simply not take it anyway.

Uh, long story short, having experienced the effects of a drug does not render one's account or opinion of them irrational, imo (unless we're speaking of a fully-gone meth addict or some such obvious case).

Gosh, I hope all that provided some sort of helpful clarity or something. ^_^;

 

[CSolarstorm]

Okay guys, I'll take responsibility for that misunderstanding. I must have conflated his argument with Neo Duality's argument, which, I am just now dissapointed with in a larger context.

I'm not sure about the driving while stoned issue. I've studied while stoned and done fine on what I studied for - it's true it does affect you differently than alcohol and I think this difference should be examined. Except until there's some conclusive scientific consensus, I'll have to go with the idea that the risk factor seems too great.

 

[Murky_Night]

I disapprove of all drugs. Marijuana, tabaco, and alcohol included.

I wasn't sure on drug issues until my friends started smoking pot. They didn't notice themselves change, but i did. I watched my friends turn from A students to dunce caps almost overnight.

Also one of my older brothers smokes pot, his habit is disgusting because he wouldn't care whether they blow smoke into my face or my 5 year old nephew. Pot has turned him into recluse who never calls my parents or comes over. He was never like this before started using pot regularly, and I think it is just sad.

Again people say Marijuana does not introduce people to other drugs. My old-friends however do shrooms now and they are looking to getting acid, of course they started pot first. So in my opinion it is a gateway drug.

So, even though Marijuana does not harm a person as much as other drugs, there is a definite change in behavior, and I have had the misfortune to witness those changes many times. So, drugs like Marijuana and alcohol should be used very very rarely on the most occasional of occasions. And as for driving while high, I don't think anyone should do it, but I'd rather someone be driving high on pot than drunk off alcohol.

 

[GhostAnime]

Anecdotal reasoning shouldn't be used to make blanket statements.

 

[Zenotwapal]

Okay guys, I'll take responsibility for that misunderstanding. I must have conflated his argument with Neo Duality's argument, which, I am just now dissapointed with in a larger context.

I'm not sure about the driving while stoned issue. I've studied while stoned and done fine on what I studied for - it's true it does affect you differently than alcohol and I think this difference should be examined. Except until there's some conclusive scientific consensus, I'll have to go with the idea that the risk factor seems too great.

Thank you for being understanding.

I don't think Zenotwapal was saying that doing a drug renders your viewpoint on it irrational, actually.



Based on this segment of his post, I thought he was simply saying that claiming to be fully in control of one's physiological and psychological condition while under the effects of the drug is irrational, and I think we have to concede that that much, at least, is true. You may be able to function at a level sufficient to marshall your thoughts, motor skills, and social behaviors into working order, but to do each of these things takes an irregular effort and consists of a change in the way you normally perceive/experience doing them, because of the effects of the drug you're taking. After all, these drugs' natural (and intended) effects are to alter your brain chemistry.

If you've taken the drug, your brain chemistry is altered while the drug's effects last. It would be incorrect to claim otherwise. If the drug has not altered your brain chemistry, then it is doing absolutely nothing to or for you, and so you may as well simply not take it anyway.

Uh, long story short, having experienced the effects of a drug does not render one's account or opinion of them irrational, imo (unless we're speaking of a fully-gone meth addict or some such obvious case).

Gosh, I hope all that provided some sort of helpful clarity or something. ^_^;

Yes.
I was making the point that while on the drug, your view points are altered. That doesn't mean for the rest of your life they are.

All I hear is your BLAH BLAH BLAH!!
You are one of those media controlled freaks who believe anything you hear, and now you're too delusional to accept the fact that drugs (marijuana more) does not harm as much as you think.
And you know what? I just said I can. I've smoked weed long enough to know how it affects my mental state. I know exactly what I can or cannot do, and that depends on the state of high I get. Trust me, when I'm highly f-ed up, I'm able to know and control myself.
If a doctor told me this, I would smack them in the face because I'd think of you and how you were able to brainwash the poor doctor. ):

Then kindly stop always being on these drug threads and throwing out some bullshit that you always say, and people always tell you the same exact thing.

On other news. Did anyone see the Miley Cyrus smoking a bong video? Apparently it was salvia, not weed. Funny thing is, that salvia is legal ..but that it some craaaaazy shit.

You know, I think you'd be crossing the line if you smacked your doctor accross the face. And by the way, like I said, and like any doctor would say, you rewally don't have total control of yourself on any drug. This is what many people fail to understand. This is how people die every year in auto accidents that are drug or alcohal related. Because people think they can get in the car drunk/high off their a** and drive perfectly fine. Isn't the arrogance showing just alittle here Kit-Kat? I'm not trying to cattle prodd anyone here, I'm just saying.

 

[Murky_Night]

posted by Kit Kat

On other news. Did anyone see the Miley Cyrus smoking a bong video? Apparently it was salvia, not weed. Funny thing is, that salvia is legal ..but that it some craaaaazy ****.

Yeah I never understood why Salvia was legal. I know someone who does Salvia, though I've never seen him do it I believe the crazy stories he tells me. Watching Spongebob Square Pants the movie while on Salvia...lol

posted by Ghost Anime

Anecdotal reasoning shouldn't be used to make blanket statements.

I was simply stating why I disapprove of marijuana. Would you have rather I left myself saying 'I disapprove of pot' so that Kit Kat can call it bull ****?

posted by Zenotwapal

You know, I think you'd be crossing the line if you smacked your doctor across the face. And by the way, like I said, and like any doctor would say, you really don't have total control of yourself on any drug. This is what many people fail to understand. This is how people die every year in auto accidents that are drug or alcohol related. Because people think they can get in the car drunk/high off their a** and drive perfectly fine. Isn't the arrogance showing just a little here Kit-Kat? I'm not trying to cattle prod anyone here, I'm just saying.

I really agree with this statement. I mean how does the person getting high or drunk know he/she is driving well? the person doing the drugs or the person fallowing those who do, does not notice the change in that person most of the time.

 

[CSolarstorm]

I disapprove of all drugs including abuse of pain medications. Oh Vicoden, I wish I could quit you...ugh. I just found out today Vicoden causes me anxiety and anger. Isn't that nice for a prescription drug that doctors recommend taking every six hours for pain?