• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Z-Moves vs. Mega Evolutions

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
At least in VGC I'd say Z-moves would be kinda dumb in a Best of 1 format since you can easily be cheesed out by something dumb because of a random Z-move you couldn't have possibly expected. With Best of 3 I'm more okay with the idea of Z-moves since it becomes more strategic with how you use your Z-move, and you can't take wins with surprise gimmick Z-moves as easily.

They're like Gems to the extreme and I know in past VGC formats people have had very lukewarm opinions of Gems (hi Dragon Gem Latios), so I'm honestly hesitant to say VGC this year will be a "better" format than last year, but it's definitely fun right now knowing that Best of 3 will still be a thing. As a whole I'm still a bigger fan of Mega Evolutions though. In other formats I feel like the utility of a Mega is more necessary than Z-moves, I don't even feel like I always need a Z-move on a team and sometimes wonder if another item may be just better.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
Z-moves > Mega evolutions

Have yet still to get used to it but in the end I think this is way better because this gives every mon more viability instead of an small selection of mons.
It also gives more variety in gameplay and in competitive play you never know what to expect.

Gotta say that this concept on that foundation just beats Mega-evolutions in general..
Team building is also more complicated now because it was usaully

Choose your mega - Chose battle style - Choose cores etc.. etc..

now we cant start with that mega anymore and gives us more of an challenge or could makes things easier too idk.

( ALSO yes mega + z more are both usuable in Smogon formats but I am speaking of VGC17 formats )

Of course Z-moves beat out Megas in VGC17 formats, Megas aren't even allowed.

However, Megas definitely beat Z-moves in terms of viability and utility. Z-moves are a one time thing, and you better hope you pull it off correctly. Whereas Megas last until the end of a battle or until KO'd, have a 90+ stat boost and often times ability/type changes that give you an edge. That's what makes Pokemon like Beedrill and Lopunny more viable, Z-Splash Lopunny won't be as good as Mega Lopunny one bit.

Of course there are some Z-moves that are very viable such as Z-Conversion Porygon-Z, Z-Splash Tsareena, Z-Splash Poliwrath, and some others. A-Raichu's Stoked Sparksurfer can be a nice way to cripple fast Pokemon as it will leave them Paralyzed, but then you've got to take Aromatherapy/Heal Bell into consideration. They do change the meta, but not as drastically as Megas do. The only thing I see being used commonly with Z-moves is Z-Conversion Porygon-Z, of course that can change come Pokebank, but as for now, I see Z-moves being niche and extremely situational.
 

mystic9899

Pokemon fan
i'm actually like the concept of z-moves more since any pokemon can use them, so there's more unpredictability. also z-belly drum is insane af.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
Z Splash is really overrated here. It takes an item slot to use and its nowhere near as useful as, say, geomancy. In most cases you'd probably be better off with a life or and swords dance so if you have to attack without setting up you can do more damage. Even Manaphy was barely too good for OU with Tail Glow and it could hold an item.
 

Azulart

Shiny Hunter
Of course Z-moves beat out Megas in VGC17 formats, Megas aren't even allowed.

However, Megas definitely beat Z-moves in terms of viability and utility. Z-moves are a one time thing, and you better hope you pull it off correctly. Whereas Megas last until the end of a battle or until KO'd, have a 90+ stat boost and often times ability/type changes that give you an edge. That's what makes Pokemon like Beedrill and Lopunny more viable, Z-Splash Lopunny won't be as good as Mega Lopunny one bit.

Of course there are some Z-moves that are very viable such as Z-Conversion Porygon-Z, Z-Splash Tsareena, Z-Splash Poliwrath, and some others. A-Raichu's Stoked Sparksurfer can be a nice way to cripple fast Pokemon as it will leave them Paralyzed, but then you've got to take Aromatherapy/Heal Bell into consideration. They do change the meta, but not as drastically as Megas do. The only thing I see being used commonly with Z-moves is Z-Conversion Porygon-Z, of course that can change come Pokebank, but as for now, I see Z-moves being niche and extremely situational.

I was talking more on the design of Z-moves in comparison with Mega evolutions.
Summerized; I think its better design because it gives all mons more viablity instead of a few selection.

In case I wasnt clear or you did not get my message.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Z Splash is really overrated here. It takes an item slot to use and its nowhere near as useful as, say, geomancy. In most cases you'd probably be better off with a life or and swords dance so if you have to attack without setting up you can do more damage. Even Manaphy was barely too good for OU with Tail Glow and it could hold an item.
While it's true that SD + Life Orb is stronger, not everything gets SD. Some Pokémon like Poliwrath and Tsareena could definitely make use of it in lower tiers.

I was talking more on the design of Z-moves in comparison with Mega evolutions.
Summerized; I think its better design because it gives all mons more viablity instead of a few selection.

In case I wasnt clear or you did not get my message.
When you give everything the same tools people are just going to used what they used before because that already worked. Very few Pokémon got buffed enough with Z-Moves to be OU-worthy.
 

Dragonite Fan

Well-Known Member
[*]Switcheroo boosts speed to +2 meaning scarf-switch pokemon can outspeed the pokemon the gave a scarf to.
This maks no sense.
1. A pokemon holding a z-crystal can't hold another item, son no choice scarf
2. Can z-crystals even be exchanged? Aren't they like mega stones?
 

Solid Cyndaquil

Drying Pan Wielder
I don't really like mega evolutions much because it made some Pokémon overpowered and it felt like a cheap way to battle if the opposing team didn't have a mega. Some of the designs weren't really good either. I like Z-moves a little bit better but I only used it once to date, Snorlax's Pancake against a certain Snorlax (Didn't even damage it halfway)
 

Ashrynn

Well-Known Member
After doing a little bit of BT/Online Battles the only three pokemon I used successfully with a Z-Move were: Porygon Z, Magearna & Ash-Greninja

Z-Conversion has already been discussed, but for Mag and A-Gren using a Z-Move to nuke and instantly powerup is really useful. Mag has some issues getting past pokemon without a boost, but using Steel/Fair Z you deal so much damage that you'll usually OHKO and gain a +1 Sp.Atk from Soul Heart which makes it even more threatening. On Ash-Greninja it's about the same idea - Use a Z-Move nuke to gain a quick transformation. However, I don't think it's as good if you lose the LO capability, but it was great for the Battle Tree.

Everything else just felt like I was going in for a quick cheap-shot they don't expect to break a wall and normally that didn't work out too well or it made something a one-hit wonder. I know that wasn't always the case, but for me it was hard to make Z-Moves work consistently with a lot of pokemon. Majority are just better with L/O since they hit too weak without the boost otherwise. That said if you have a team with a straight-up counter you need to drop I can see using a Lure with a Z-move, but I didn't use it that way myself.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I've been using Primarium Z in Battle Tree doubles which works pretty well. The main advantage is that Sparkling Aria is a spread move, while Oceanic Operetta is a single-target move, so basically I have both in a single moveslot. I can use Sparkling Aria if I need a weak spread move to finish off weakened opponents and Oceanic Operetta if I need to nuke something really really hard.
 

Italianbaptist

Informed Casual
So how bout that upcoming Z-crystals only tournament? Should I just use one of the superpowered moves or boost my stats with Z-Conversion or Z-Splash?
 
Top