Zygarde Fights Back! The Final Battle for Kalos!! (939)

[Pikachu52]

Even if it somehow was, it still was better than 99% of anything we've ever seen in the anime before, right?

It's more darker and more violent than anything we're used to and more engaging than filler episodes but it doesn't do enough to stand out from the overall anime.

We even got a heroic sacrifice in the form of Clembot.

As far as heroic sacrifices go Clembot was a cop out. Clembot isn't actually alive, it's a robot. So the audience can't really have an attachment to it. Any emotion you feel for the "sacrifice" is blunted by the fact that Clembot's a talking machine, has no feelings and can't feel pain. Worse still Clembot didn't exactly die - it referred to what happened to it as having it's memory wiped. Has Clemont never heard of back ups! The anime has already done a number of "disney death" scenes where a main character appears to die but is resurrected. Ash in the first movie, Ash again in the 8th movie, Pikachu in the 17th. As well as scenes where actual character deaths have occurred; Lucario in the 8th movie, Latios in the 4th. Those scenes are much more emotional both because they are better scripted than Clembot and they involve a living feeling character the audience has developed a bond with. Even compared to the non-death death scenes Clembot fails to move. If they wanted to create an impact they should have used Luxray or Chespin.

Besides, everyone knows anime!Team Galactic is the best villain team.

Galatic had a better plot than Flare largely because they kept to the overall game plot. Personally however I think Plasma and Aqua/Magma stand out more.

 

[Soniman]

Please enlighten us how this finale was good.

Will anything said really convince you? Its obvious you had it out for this arc since day 1 lol

And Ash was way too quick to excuse his past behaviour.

>Ash is ooc for being to heroic
>Ash should hold a grudge to someone repentive and not evil

Worse still Clembot didn't exactly die - it referred to what happened to it as having it's memory wiped. H

A nice way of saying hes dead, he literally built a new bot from scratch

ersonally however I think Plasma and Aqua/Magma stand out more.

You seriously compare this to sharknado but then defend aqua/magma?

 

[Janovy]

I'm not sure why people have issues with this arc.

It improved upon the lackluster Flare plot from the games; given the source material, most of the things turned out better than expected.

 

[Soniman]

I'm not sure why people have issues with this arc.

It improved upon the lackluster Flare plot from the games; given the source material, most of the things turned out better than expected.

Eeveryone had a role, the pacing was decent, emotional moments aplenty, animation is on point, exciting and memorable climax.

Sure I have nitpicks but their just that, nit picks, for a evil team arc and for the show in general it deserves its props

 

[Pikachu52]

Ash should hold a grudge to someone repentive and not evil

A person without whose contribution the Zygarde incident would not exist. I'm not saying Ash shouldn't forgive Alain, I'm saying he was too dismissive of the charges against him. Lysandre made out that Alain had collected mega evolution energy for Lysandre implying that Ash didn't know that Alain had actively helped them track and capture the same Zygarde that was attacking the city. He barely knows Mairin, has never seen Chespie but he willingly accepts the explanation about Alain doing everything for them. He acts all understanding when realistically he doesn't understanding any of the events that led up to the scene on Prism Tower. While Ash isn't the type to hold grudges, a grudge against Alain is justified given his own stupidity, complicity and warped notion of protecting those he cares about nearly got everyone killed. The problem is not that Ash didn't hold a grudge, it was that he never bothered to find out all the facts before declaring Alain to be good based on three battles.

Given his attitude towards Team Rocket, whose crimes are much less than Alain's, if he'd known about Zygarde he might have been less willing to forgive.

 

[Janovy]

A person without whose contribution the Zygarde incident would not exist. I'm not saying Ash shouldn't forgive Alain, I'm saying he was too dismissive of the charges against him. Lysandre made out that Alain had collected mega evolution energy for Lysandre implying that Ash didn't know that Alain had actively helped them track and capture the same Zygarde that was attacking the city. He barely knows Mairin, has never seen Chespie but he willingly accepts the explanation about Alain doing everything for them. He acts all understanding when realistically he doesn't understanding any of the events that led up to the scene on Prism Tower. While Ash isn't the type to hold grudges, a grudge against Alain is justified given his own stupidity, complicity and warped notion of protecting those he cares about nearly got everyone killed. The problem is not that Ash didn't hold a grudge, it was that he never bothered to find out all the facts before declaring Alain to be good based on three battles.

Ash doesn't judge people based on their past actions, but on their present ones.

When Ash first learns what Alain did, he can see the regret and misery on Alain's face. Ash can be surprisingly empathetic at certain points and it is at that point that Ash realizes that what Alain did probably wasn't what he actually intended so he says to Alain that his past self is irrelevant. That's what ultimately allows Alain to confront Lysandre and get over the despair.

There is no reason for Ash to judge Alain. Alain was used, tricked and fooled by a person he respected and it is heavily implied he was imprisoned and questioned after the whole Flare fiasco.

So why in the hell should anyone condemn him?

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Ash doesn't judge people based on their past actions, but on their present ones.

When Ash first learns what Alain did, he can see the regret and misery on Alain's face. Ash can be surprisingly empathetic at certain points and it is at that point that Ash realizes that what Alain did probably wasn't what he actually intended so he says to Alain that his past self is irrelevant. That's what ultimately allows Alain to confront Lysandre and get over the despair.

There is no reason for Ash to judge Alain. Alain was used, tricked and fooled by a person he respected and it is heavily implied he was imprisoned and questioned after the whole Flare fiasco.

So why in the hell should anyone condemn him?

Not to mention other characters were tricked by Lysandre as well, including Steven and the great Ash himself.

 

[Janovy]

Not to mention other characters were tricked by Lysandre as well, including Steven and the great Ash himself.

Yeah. And Alain is JUST A KID. He may be older than Ash, but he's far from being an adult.

 

[Pikachu52]

Not to mention other characters were tricked by Lysandre as well, including Steven and the great Ash himself.

Ash met Lysandre once and had a less than five minute conversation with him. Lysandre didn't so much trick him as he simply wasn't visible to Ash for most of the series.

Alain however was directly taking instructions from him and communicating with uniform wearing Team Flare members. Alain even helped Team Flare take down Zygarde without question. He was directly involved in Lysandre's inner circle. Even if Alain not realising the extent of Lysandre's plans, he was in deep enough to realise Lysandre's actions were morally questionable.

 

[Nerdy McNerdface]

Don't want to start any flame wars. I actually like how Team Galactic was handled better overall, but as far as the finale arc goes, this had to be far superior.

You kind of ended up starting a flame war.

I think we should just end the argument with this phrase:
"People have opinions."

So, what was everyone's favourite part of the arc overall?

 

[Janovy]

So, what was everyone's favourite part of the arc overall?

The gym leaders coming together and Diantha/Steven joining forces with them against Team Flare.

 

[NPT]

So, what was everyone's favourite part of the arc overall?

Favorite parts of the Team Flare arc:

-Ash's speech.
-The Kalos gym leaders joining the fight.

Least favorite part of the Team Flare arc:

- Alain. 'Nuff said.

 

[Daniel31]

So, what was everyone's favourite part of the arc overall?

All the gym leaders, Ash, Alain, Sycamore, Diantha, Malva, etc...everyone coming together and the rush they did to save Chespie, plus 100% Zygarde.

 

[Pikachu52]

You kind of ended up starting a flame war.

I think we should just end the argument with this phrase:
"People have opinions."

So, what was everyone's favourite part of the arc overall?

Good point.

My favourite part of the arch. Probably Pikachu defeating Gyarados. I liked complete Zygarde too

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I guess I just took it for granted that everyone else would agree. I thought it was great because they upped both the plot and the action. We had some great action sequences and everyone got to their part to help out. We even got a heroic sacrifice in the form of Clembot. The return of all the gym leaders was absolutely stunning to see, no matter how forgettable said gym leaders may be. I don't really know how else to explain it other than to say that I was blown away, and that the show had gone to a level they had never gone before.

Do you not agree?

All I got from this was, "I'm an easily excitable person and can't see flaws in anything as long as there is action! PWRZ!!!"

So, no. I don't agree.

Ash doesn't judge people based on their past actions, but on their present ones.

That's not exactly a good trait for a human. THE PRESENT IS BUILT ON THE PAST. The past shapes up as humans for the present, which shall dictate our future as a whole! Besides, these characters only judge good traits and how to improve them. Bad traits? Who cares?

And sorry, but Alain was too easily pardoned and we're expected to believe him beating himself up 24/7 is his punishment while everyone smiles his way?

The morals in this anime are extremely weird, even the "wiser" adults don't do anything about it.

Oh, uh, favorite part? Xyrosic disappearing into the gym's trap.

 

[Janovy]

That's not exactly a good trait for a human. THE PRESENT IS BUILT ON THE PAST.

So in your eyes, a person is irredeemable regardless of what they do in the future because of the mistakes they made in the past?

You never cease to amaze me.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Will anything said really convince you? Its obvious you had it out for this arc since day 1 lol

lol I'm sorry I can't turn a blind eye to something that obviously has a lot of holes that keep it from being believable.

I don't know why you said it was obvious, though.

So in your eyes, a person is irredeemable regardless of what they do in the future because of the mistakes they made in the past?

No. I'm my words, we must not look and forget the past. Alain's past is certainly worthy of getting a lot of punishment. Turning a blind eye to that or simply patting his back with, "Hey, it's okay, buddy. You didn't do anything wrong" is just...strange.

Also, stop harassing me into being this person who hates everything who amuses you.

 

[thiagomestres]

All I got from this was, "I'm an easily excitable person and can't see flaws in anything as long as there is action! PWRZ!!!"

So, no. I don't agree.



That's not exactly a good trait for a human. THE PRESENT IS BUILT ON THE PAST. The past shapes up as humans for the present, which shall dictate our future as a whole!

uh

The morals in this anime are extremely weird, even the "wiser" adults don't do anything about it.

This is Pokémon, dude. Adults let 10 years old kids travel around the world all by themselves. If you want something that's "easier to believe", you probably shouldn't be watching anime about magical creatures being captured by kids.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

This is Pokémon, dude. Adults let 10 years old kids travel around the world all by themselves.

I'm pretty sure this is the only justified lack of moral that everyone is fine with.

I meant the rest of the lack of morals after that.

 

[Janovy]

No. I'm my words, we must not look and forget the past. Alain's past is certainly worthy of getting a lot of punishment. Turning a blind eye to that or simply patting his back with, "Hey, it's okay, buddy. You didn't do anything wrong" is just...strange.

People didn't turn a blind eye (or did you forget that Alain was away for some time, possibly being imprisoned/questioned) nor is the whole thing solely Alain's fault.

Alain wasn't the guy bent on controlling the world with Zygarde, FYI. That was Lysandre.

Also, stop harassing me into being this person who hates everything who amuses you.

1. Disagreement =/= harassment.
2. Your words, not mine. I can't change the way you portray yourself.