Zygarde Fights Back! The Final Battle for Kalos!! (939)

[ggloop]

did celosia and mable die? I didn't see them escaping Lysandre Labs when the megalith transformed

 

[Lucas MV]

http://www.serebiiforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16063&d=1473978275

It's curious how they tried to say that his Kalos team was Ash's ultimate team. But in the end, they know that's a big pile of bullsh*t.

So they actually know Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile, Krookodile and Ash-Greninja are his real aces, but they just can't put them in the actual episodes, can't them? *Sigh*. This anime would be so much better if it appealed to the older audience that watches the show from the start, like DB does.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

So i seem to be one of the few who actually felt cheated by this team flare arc? They rushed the league arc making Ash lose in the final so they could get to this arc and this was it?

I was expecting them to at least give ash the opportunity to be the savior of kalos considering they made alain win against him in the league and all the build up they gave to ash greninja, but nop.

They build up Greninja to be this amazing pokemon that would play the major role in the saving of the world, but then he played just as much of a role as most of the trainers that were there, in fact Alain played a more important role than Ash in all of these two last arcs.. I haven't seen Ash greninja do anything worthwhile of putting him on Charizard or Sceptile tier, maybe krookodile tier.

Episode would be great had they either made ash won at the league or made ash actually be the savior but whatever.. Saw the sun and moon trailer and it seems I won't be regretting finally leaving this anime behind me after so damn long.

What's the point of watching a story of a loser who accomplishes nothing worthwhile(hyperbole), who would ever write an Ash biography in the pokemon world?

I'd prefer following the adventures of Steven or Cynthia, at least I know they accomplished stuff..

Ash is a bad protagonist in my mind, I don't mind him losing one or two times because it gives the message that it's okay to lose because eventually you'll find success, but that failure has to lead to success otherwise it sends a bad message..

So far ash has always lost in the league, that failure is leading nowhere. I don't want to see a story of a loser who never succeeds, that's not inspiring and the message i'm getting is that no matter how hard you try and persist you'll never accomplish your goals, and it's even worse since it seems like the formula is changing and there might not be a traditional league anymore, it makes ash seem like he just gave up on winning a league for the time being..

I just can't understand what would be so bad about finally letting him win at the Kalos league and I just reached my limit.

Ash's story is not an inspiring one.. At least there's still pokemon generations(even if it's short) which has red as the protagonist.. A character that accomplished things and isn't just another dude that never made it to the top, and him being the kanto champion doesn't make me any less interested in seeing him on other places in fact it makes me want to see his story even more. And I now wish they'd make a full fledged anime with him as the protagonist or adapt the pokemon adventures manga into anime, much better stories with better messages than the current anime we have.

Sorry for all this complaining about the anime, I just had to vent out my frustrations with it since i've been in this relationship with the anime for so many years and my heart has been broken time over time. Not trying to discredit anyone who still enjoys it, it is fine to do so.

You're not the only one with earnest opinions, really. This climax was good only because of the usual Pokemon standards.

 

[Soniman]

Can't we just call something good without adding the stipulation "but only good for this show, it's crap by any other sensible measurements of quality" as if it's a defense mechanism.

I think if you removed the finale from Pokemon and put it in a different show it would still be considered good or at least decent

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Can't we just call something good.

We just did. It's good anyway, but other shows would explain such things in more detail which is the norm.

Be happy people did find this good.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

Just wondering:
Weren't moves used by Zygarde Perfect at the end before dividing to Squishy and Z2 Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows.

What do you think?

As far as I can tell the only moves Perfect Zygarde used were Dragon Pulse, Extreme Speed, and Core Enforcer.

Which means the moveset of the current anime Zygarde is:
1. Dragon Pulse
2. Extreme Speed
3. Land's Wrath
4. Core Enforcer (perhaps usable only in Perfect Forme).

They build up Greninja to be this amazing pokemon that would play the major role in the saving of the world, but then he played just as much of a role as most of the trainers that were there, in fact Alain played a more important role than Ash in all of these two last arcs.. I haven't seen Ash greninja do anything worthwhile of putting him on Charizard or Sceptile tier, maybe krookodile tier.

What are you talking about? Ash and Greninja fought as one being the whole time, and it was only because of them that Alain was able to even reach Chespie. They located it, and protected Alain long enough for him to reach it.

And I don't know how you can call potentially the most powerful pokemon Ash has ever had "maybe Krookodile" tier. The only thing his Charizard and Sceptile have over Greninja is having beaten fairly average individuals of a couple of legendary pokemon (and Sceptile had a lot of help). I'd say Greninja is easily an equal to them.

So far ash has always lost in the league, that failure is leading nowhere. I don't want to see a story of a loser who never succeeds, that's not inspiring and the message i'm getting is that no matter how hard you try and persist you'll never accomplish your goals,

Let's be fair here, most trainers in the anime world won't ever come even half as close to winning a league as Ash has, many won't even qualify for a league in the first place. There is no shame in losing to Elite 4 level trainers like Alain.

And its clear at this point the writers aren't letting him win due to lack of ability, but for some other reason (though what that reason is is up for debate).

 

[Soniman]

We just did. It's good anyway, but other shows would explain such things in more detail which is the norm.

Be happy people did find this good.

You know what....

You're right

 

[DankOverlord]

As far as I can tell the only moves Perfect Zygarde used were Dragon Pulse, Extreme Speed, and Core Enforcer.

Which means the moveset of the current anime Zygarde is:
1. Dragon Pulse
2. Extreme Speed
3. Land's Wrath
4. Core Enforcer (perhaps usable only in Perfect Forme).


What are you talking about? Ash and Greninja fought as one being the whole time, and it was only because of them that Alain was able to even reach Chespie. They located it, and protected Alain long enough for him to reach it.

And I don't know how you can call potentially the most powerful pokemon Ash has ever had "maybe Krookodile" tier. The only thing his Charizard and Sceptile have over Greninja is having beaten fairly average individuals of a couple of legendary pokemon (and Sceptile had a lot of help). I'd say Greninja is easily an equal to them.


Let's be fair here, most trainers in the anime world won't ever come even half as close to winning a league as Ash has, many won't even qualify for a league in the first place. There is no shame in losing to Elite 4 level trainers like Alain.

And its clear at this point the writers aren't letting him win due to lack of ability, but for some other reason (though what that reason is is up for debate).

Geez People can't just be allowed to criticize the writers or the anime.

 

[diakyu]

People seem to be going out of their way to make it seem like Ash and Greninja didn't save the day when it was their super special bond that allowed them to find Chespie in the first place. Just because Alain grabbed Chespie in the end doesn't mean he was the most vital piece.

But in the end Squishy is the true savior of Kalos.

 

[Nightslushie]

As much as I loved this hour long special.. greninja was just there to look pretty. Sure he sense where chespie was.. but other than that.. he didn't play a huge role in this conflict. Alain used him as a stepping stone this entire arc. Too bad the orange shuriken was just used once to be useless. *shrug* 8/10

 

[DankOverlord]

People seem to be going out of their way to make it seem like Ash and Greninja didn't save the day when it was their super special bond that allowed them to find Chespie in the first place. Just because Alain grabbed Chespie in the end doesn't mean he was the most vital piece.

But in the end Squishy is the true savior of Kalos.

Yeah but the main problem is that Greninjash didn't really do anything notable aside from finding Chespin for Alain, which literally kills all the hype behind it, I mean aside from that all Greninjash did was being a show-off

 

[Nightslushie]

Yeah but the main problem is that Greninjash didn't really do anything notable aside from finding Chespin for Alain, which literally kills all the hype behind it, I mean aside from that all Greninjash did was being a show-off

Exactly, they really ruined ash greninja. But oh well, time for these final episodes where they give greninja a shitty farewell and can him. All that development amounted to nothing.


P.S. Dont get me wrong, I love this entire season.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I was expecting Ash-Greninja to do big things, but I guess Olympia's future sight was severely incomplete, so hence why it was actually a group effort with no real human highlights.

Z1 & Z2 ended up being the main dish, and somehow I think Bonnie was the one who did the most progress out of everyone. Everyone else just seemed like they were stalling for time until Perfect Zygarde perfectly solved everything.

But hey, Alain's getting a celebration party! And no one else who helped was invited.

 

[DankOverlord]

Exactly, they really ruined ash greninja. But oh well, time for these final episodes where they give greninja a shitty farewell and can him. All that development amounted to nothing.


P.S. Dont get me wrong, I love this entire season.

Yeah I do but I wished Ash had just gotten a normal Mega, then his "great role" in the Arc would make more sense

I was expecting Ash-Greninja to do big things, but I guess Olympia's future sight was severely incomplete, so hence why it was actually a group effort with no real human highlights.

Z1 & Z2 ended up being the main dish, and somehow I think Bonnie was the one who did the most progress out of everyone. Everyone else just seemed like they were stalling for time until Perfect Zygarde perfectly solved everything.

But hey, Alain's getting a celebration party! And no one else who helped was invited.

You know the writers have to give credit to their precious flawless invincible pet

 

[Xenon Blue]

So i seem to be one of the few who actually felt cheated by this team flare arc? They rushed the league arc making Ash lose in the final so they could get to this arc and this was it?

I was expecting them to at least give ash the opportunity to be the savior of kalos considering they made alain win against him in the league and all the build up they gave to ash greninja, but nop.

They build up Greninja to be this amazing pokemon that would play the major role in the saving of the world, but then he played just as much of a role as most of the trainers that were there, in fact Alain played a more important role than Ash in all of these two last arcs.. I haven't seen Ash greninja do anything worthwhile of putting him on Charizard or Sceptile tier, maybe krookodile tier.

Episode would be great had they either made ash won at the league or made ash actually be the savior but whatever.. Saw the sun and moon trailer and it seems I won't be regretting finally leaving this anime behind me after so damn long.

What's the point of watching a story of a loser who accomplishes nothing worthwhile(hyperbole), who would ever write an Ash biography in the pokemon world?

I'd prefer following the adventures of Steven or Cynthia, at least I know they accomplished stuff..

Ash is a bad protagonist in my mind, I don't mind him losing one or two times because it gives the message that it's okay to lose because eventually you'll find success, but that failure has to lead to success otherwise it sends a bad message..

So far ash has always lost in the league, that failure is leading nowhere. I don't want to see a story of a loser who never succeeds, that's not inspiring and the message i'm getting is that no matter how hard you try and persist you'll never accomplish your goals, and it's even worse since it seems like the formula is changing and there might not be a traditional league anymore, it makes ash seem like he just gave up on winning a league for the time being..

I just can't understand what would be so bad about finally letting him win at the Kalos league and I just reached my limit.

Ash's story is not an inspiring one.. At least there's still pokemon generations(even if it's short) which has red as the protagonist.. A character that accomplished things and isn't just another dude that never made it to the top, and him being the kanto champion doesn't make me any less interested in seeing him on other places in fact it makes me want to see his story even more. And I now wish they'd make a full fledged anime with him as the protagonist or adapt the pokemon adventures manga into anime, much better stories with better messages than the current anime we have.

Sorry for all this complaining about the anime, I just had to vent out my frustrations with it since i've been in this relationship with the anime for so many years and my heart has been broken time over time. Not trying to discredit anyone who still enjoys it, it is fine to do so.

You're not the only one that feels this way. If I had to compare this arc to top-tier anime's ending arc, then of course this arc would look crap. In fact, comparing any aspect of this anime to any other top-tier anime will make this anime look even more silly. Now of course those kind of comparison is really unfair due to the standards, target audience and objectives of the anime being completely different, but I can see why people can get frustrated with this anime very quickly. The people here are merely using the Pokemon anime's standard to judge this arc, which is completely fair given the circumstances.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

I was expecting Ash-Greninja to do big things, but I guess Olympia's future sight was severely incomplete, so hence why it was actually a group effort with no real human highlights.

Z1 & Z2 ended up being the main dish, and somehow I think Bonnie was the one who did the most progress out of everyone. Everyone else just seemed like they were stalling for time until Perfect Zygarde perfectly solved everything.

But Zygarde wasn't the one who solved everything. It was fighting the megalith evenly but ultimately that amounted to giving Ash and Alain the chance to attack Lysandre directly and thus stop the megalith from moving/defending/attacking. Only then was Zygarde able to make sure the megalith never moved again.

Even with perfect Zygarde there it was a group effort, with Ash Greninja being one of the three pokemon to deliver the attack that destroyed Lysandre's device.

 

[Soniman]

Exactly, they really ruined ash greninja. But oh well, time for these final episodes where they give greninja a shitty farewell and can him. All that development amounted to nothing.


P.S. Dont get me wrong, I love this entire season.

You people are acting like Ash Greninja wasn't in the thick of the action taking on Lysandre and Rock Zygarde the entire time, it's quite hilarious actually

 

[andrewscott48209]

You people are acting like Ash Greninja wasn't in the thick of the action taking on Lysandre and Rock Zygarde the entire time, it's quite hilarious actually

They think that if Ash Greninja didn't do it alone, then he wasn't in the thick of the action. But I don't see it that way. It really took a group effort from two champions, a member of the elite four, the Lumiose conference champion and the runner up, all eight gym leaders and the complete form of a legendary Pokémon (that Bonnie befriended) to take team flare and the Megalith (I'm probably misspelling this word).

 

[Vincentium]

Honestly, for someone who watched the anime from the beginning, those who are disappointed by it are just being completely nitpicky for the sake being in the minority. Dunno what even being in the "minority" does for them, but this finale for a main plot is definitely top-notched. So yeah, haters are just hating for the sake of it, really.

 

[Ritchie Donovan]

Yeah everybody had to get in on this one to win. I LOVED how Team Rocket was there keeping the region (hell probably the world) informed of everything going on. Their coverage of the entire battle was spectacular and they even got a few shots in to support Ash. I hate seeing this side of them knowing they're gonna go back to being blasted off stealing Pikachu later on. They really seem more like tough love friends to Ash than outright enemies. Wonder how Giovanni is taking this? Their spin on the motto was fun too. I was worried their camera would get destroyed somehow during the battle but they actually managed to stay on the air. It was beautiful.

Pokemon has really come a long way since the Kanto series. Sure Ash didn't get the big win i wanted during the Kalos League but the kid gets some serious points for bringing out his Pokemon's true powers. Eventually he'll get the trophy. I still love you Ash! Congratulations Ash and crew! that was one hell of a battle to fight. I'll watch Sun and Moon and try to reset my mindset somehow. It might be cringeworthy in the beginning but the writers keep proving that when the plot gets going they can get in some serious action