Zygarde/Flare arc preview

[satopi]

Anybody else happy that there's a male version of Officer Jenny?

 

[Johtohfiller]

They are, you're right. Except, what happened on Thursday did, indeed, affect their capacity to make money. Stock drops, people swearing off future games, burning old ones, etc. I honestly think that unless they have a brilliant endgame in mind for XYZ (and they might, mind you), they are already feeling the heat from this.

Ash winning would have been better from a merchandising perspective. "Hey kids, these Pokemon won the Kalos League! Buy the toys!"

 

[Greneuliest808]

More than that, there is the prospect of the Pokémon animé not only not being a boon for the franchise, but also a liability due to the outcome of the League. If that happens, there will be two options: 1. cancel the series. I doubt that people want that. 2. Change the series. Maybe retire Ash and use the player characters from the games as the main characters in the series and have the series follow the games more closely.

Now, there are still ways to save the current series and actually turn this around and make it a good story, such as Alain relinquishing his title voluntarily, but the best way to bring this about will make some people even more salty. That is having Alain rescue Ash and be the one to take down Lysandre. Lysandre is shaping up to be Alain's villain anyway so it would not surprise me if this turned out to be the case. Next, despite beating Lysandre, Alain feels guilty about the damage done to Lumiose City, and possibly Kalos, and voluntarily relinquishes the trophy, which Ash accepts only after a battle, but one that Alain throws since he does not want to be the Champion. Ash then goes to Alola, where one can only participate in the Island Trials if one has won a League. The Kahunas see his trophy but don't let him take part in the trials because of how he got it, viewing it as a "pity win". Ash then has to prove that he's worthy to take the trials, which is made more difficult initially by failing his first test, battling Mallow where she purposefully, and obviously, throws a fight, with Ash not recognizing it, thus the Kahunas viewing him as a nobody who will take a "win" however he can get it. He then has to prove that he is, indeed, worthy of taking the trials. He eventually saves Tapu Koko after encountering Team Skull and eventually rejecting them after they try to seduce him, and the Guardian Pokémon tells the others to allow him to take the Trials, but the Guardian Pokémon leaves him with this warning/piece of advice: "never forget your friends and your family. Doing so is why you lost in Kalos and why you are not respected by the Kahunas and Trial Captains." The question of whether or not a storyline like this would be implemented is more debatable, despite the positive lesson that could come from it.

This is one interesting theory and I think it will really play out well. Would it teach the anime staff a lesson for that lackluster league, Ash having to lose due to plot armor, and possibly betraying the fans? I hope it does. Cancelling the anime series is really the worst case scenario and that will really upset the fans. Changing the series is not impossible, but if that can be done correctly, then it could potentially become more successful than just keeping Ash as the main protagonist.

Anybody else happy that there's a male version of Officer Jenny?

Wow, yes, I actually saw that and it was mind-blowing for sure.

Ash winning would have been better from a merchandising perspective. "Hey kids, these Pokemon won the Kalos League! Buy the toys!"

That would really help make Japan alot of revenue and profit instead of having Ash lose because more people would buy these merchandises.

 

[Mew2]

They are, you're right. Except, what happened on Thursday did, indeed, affect their capacity to make money. Stock drops, people swearing off future games, burning old ones, etc. I honestly think that unless they have a brilliant endgame in mind for XYZ (and they might, mind you), they are already feeling the heat from this.

I'm also interested in how this may affect Greninja's, particularly Ash-Greninja's popularity. I know we have yet to see the Team Flare Climax, but assuming nothing truly amazing happens there, I wonder if this will hurt Greninja's popularity, both in Japan as well as in the rest of the world.

 

[storm12]

The PokemonCoJP has always had the comments disabled and no like/dislike bar. Unless you're talking about TV Tokyo, it does the same.

Ah didn't know that. I'm sure I was able to comment on the TV Tokyo video first but no longer.


I was one of the people who hadn't watched the anime in a long long time but that Ash might actually win a league after all this time piqued my interest. Then the moment came, where the writers sold everyone out. This was the time: 20 years of pokemon, 20 years of struggle and Ash got to a final- a victory would have been infinitely more desirable on all sides. The trouble is the writers are too damn afraid of facing that unknown: What to do when Ash actually succeeds. They chose greed over having to reinvent themselves and the series. It can only change by letting Ash go! It is beyond a joke now, the resetting and the bad decisions he makes (rather, the writers make him make). He may never need to have aged but that doesn't mean he couldn't grow and this time it looked like he had.

The writers made the poor decision long ago to never drop Ash. But why? Out of love for the character? Or just because they were so afraid of having to go into unknown territory and so they're perfectly happy generating revenue the same way they always have? If they really cared about Ash as a character they would have let him have his moment, let him fulfill his raison d'etre then let him go.

The reckless greed and laziness of the writers is frustating.

 

[satopi]

I see the salt hasn't expired yet.

There's more to Ash/Pokémon than just winning the League. Besides, I'm with the people whom said that unlike other sagas, there were many hints pointing to the direction of Ash winning this time. But since he didn't and it's all said and done, there's nothing that we can do about that. Your rant sounds more like complaining about the whole anime with Ash's character not aging as one of the issues rather than what's happening now. Ash is the face of the anime. Same with Team Rocket and Pikachu. The writers are still experimenting with new things but I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let Ash win.

 

[Greneuliest808]

I see the salt hasn't expired yet.

There's more to Ash/Pokémon than just winning the League. Besides, I'm with the people whom said that unlike other sagas, there were many hints pointing to the direction of Ash winning this time. But since he didn't and it's all said and done, there's nothing that we can do about that. Your rant sounds more like complaining about the whole anime with Ash's character not aging as one of the issues rather than what's happening now. Ash is the face of the anime. Same with Team Rocket and Pikachu. The writers are still experimenting with new things but I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let Ash win.

Once the TF arc does air starting on Thursday, let's hope the salt does die down that time.

 

[satopi]

Once the TF arc does air starting on Thursday, let's hope the salt does die down that time.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward for other characters who aren't Ash to shine. And now that the main screen hogger is captured... "evil grin"

If only I was as hyped as Epicocity.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

So this has me baffled. What makes Alain keep working for Lysandre? It's clearly not Manon, who is seen with Serena, so what would keep him from doing the right thing? Alain has been portrayed as a good guy, with some problems, but has never been shown to be evil. He collected all that ME energy to help people. I don't think it's obligation, cause Alain doesn't seem be the sort of guy who would do that when he knows what Lysandre is doing. Heck, he just stands there as Ash is being held, possibly even getting hurt.

If he stays loyal to Flare for any amount of time then the most likely reason would be his undying trust in Lysandre who has mentored and supported him all this time. Especially since it looks like he didn't expect Flare's attack to occur (i.e. he seemed surprised when the giant roots appeared).

I can see him saying/thinking something along the lines of "I'm sorry things have to be this way Ash, but trust me, someday you'll see this is all for the greater good of everyone."

Course that line of thinking will no doubt change once Alain finds out Lysandre wants genocide (assuming that is his plan).

 

[Greneuliest808]

Yeah, I'm really looking forward for other characters who aren't Ash to shine. And now that the main screen hogger is captured... "evil grin"

If only I was as hyped as Epicocity.

Hey, you do have the right to be hyped for the TF arc. We are getting at least a Bonnie-focused and a Clemont-focused episode. Let's hope Serena does get one as well. TRio could also get another focused episode as well.

 

[storm12]

I see the salt hasn't expired yet.

There's more to Ash/Pokémon than just winning the League. Besides, I'm with the people whom said that unlike other sagas, there were many hints pointing to the direction of Ash winning this time. But since he didn't and it's all said and done, there's nothing that we can do about that. Your rant sounds more like complaining about the whole anime with Ash's character not aging as one of the issues rather than what's happening now. Ash is the face of the anime. Same with Team Rocket and Pikachu. The writers are still experimenting with new things but I agree that it wouldn't hurt to let Ash win.

Way to miss the point of my 'rant'. I specifically said him not aging isn't an issue, its that he has no stable character growth because it is reset/stunted every time he goes to a new region essentially. If that was what they wanted to in terms of a blank slate each region why bother trying to tell 'Ash's story', when it is completely drammatically impotent. What they've shown us is that Ash's 'journey' will never come to an end until the franchise does- because as you say- he is the 'face' of the anime. The problem is it doesn't have to be his face, he's basically a cipher come the start of each gen. Yes there are references to his past and he dips into his old roster from time to time, but he is written into a perpetual present where there is no end point, there is no planned resolution. The writers have truly proven that the anime is nothing more than a twenty minute long merchandise advert each week. They simply don't care about character, about dramatic resolution, or really 'experimenting' as you put it. Experimenting would have been letting Ash get the win they basically wrote for him but didnt have the bottle to actually execute; experimenting would be writing Ash out of the show and giving us new characters who acrually have stakes and dramatic potential; experimenting would be pulling away from doing what is most reliably profitable to trying to actually write something with some damn artistic integrity.

You say there is more to Ash, but is there, really?

Writing this has clarified in my own mind why I haven't cared about the anime for so long. Because it will never truly try to be anything other than a merch spinner.

 

[Alexander18]

The writers do care no matter what others say. Ash doesn't need to win a league to have character growth and development. Anyway, the team flare/zygarde arc looks more interesting by the second. Zygarde seems to be summoning giant roots or whatever all over the city.

 

[Epicocity]

Yeah, I'm really looking forward for other characters who aren't Ash to shine. And now that the main screen hogger is captured... "evil grin"

If only I was as hyped as Epicocity.

I'm only hyped because I love looking at the positives!

But seriously, I was hardly happy about the loss, but given some time and the excellent previews we received it really made me excited. I just get this feeling we're entering uncharted territory for the series here and I love that. The only thing we officially know about this arc as of this moment is the obvious: Team Flare/Lysandre will be defeated. Beyond that is anyone's guess. What kind of character development will there be? How long will Alain continue to betray those he cares about? What will be the result of it? Why does Lysandre want Ash? Who will rescue him? The list is endless if not more so from: what will happen after the dust clears? Because we have enough time for something but not enough time for nothing.

 

[Uncanny Pikachu]

I like what I saw in the preview but I'll just keep my expectations low. Honestly, the only thing I hope is that all of Ash's pokemon get to shine during this arc. Also, enough spotlight for Greninja. I still like the frog but everything we had about it getting "stronger and stronger" got destroyed after that loss.

 

[satopi]

Hey, you do have the right to be hyped for the TF arc. We are getting at least a Bonnie-focused and a Clemont-focused episode. Let's hope Serena does get one as well. TRio could also get another focused episode as well.

I'm just glad that Serena's battling. It's a good thing she's not being active staying in the background.

My Predictions:
Before Ash gets hit by a Confuse Ray & captured, him and Alan are wondering what's going on and help each other. After hearing Lysandre's speech, they gather the group and get information from them and they split up. Puni chan wanders off and gathers a bunch of Cores, turning into Zygarde 10% and goes after Zygarde 50%. They lost sight of Puni chan but Bonnie mistaken the Red Zygarde as Puni chan at the Lumiose Tower. Clemont, Bonnie, and Serena head to the Gym where they find Xerosic trying to take over the Gym ad their dad and Clembot fighting him. Clembot gets mind controlled/broken and Clemont would have to shut down Clembot and fight Xerosic. Puni chan turns into Zygarde 50% and battles the Red Zygarde. Bonnie sees the real Puni chan and wants to be by its side. Since it was getting too dangerous for them, Champion Daigo appears on his helicopter persuading Serena and Bonnie to get on before they get hurt. Bonnie doesn't want to but Serena pulls her back (seeing as though in one of the previews, Bonnie's crying and pulling her hand out.) Serena tries helping Puni chan with Braixen where they attack by air.

Meanwhile a Pokémon appears, Alan and Ash attack it but then a Grunt comes out and surprises them, hitting Ash with a Confuse Ray. Pikachu tries to wake up Ash but faints. The Grunt reminds Alan what he must do and he carries Ash to Malva. Ash is taken inside to be tested as Lysandre's experiment. He wakes up wondering why he is strapped on. The weapon is used on Ash, causing him pain. Ash begs Alan to help him but Alan betrays him, telling him this is for the greater good (whatever Lysandre is planning to use on him). Alan leaves to find Manon. Manon doesn't know what's going on and catches sight of Puni chan near the forest and goes there. Pikachu wakes up from the Confuse Ray and goes to find Ash. Pikachu witnesses Ash in pain and when the weapon is stopped, Pikachu springs into action. He uses Iron Tail on the cuffs and Ash is freed. Ash sends out all his Pokémon and they battle Malva's Houndoom & Lysandre's Pyroar. They all get defeated and captured, the last going down is Greninja.

Shota, (Corni if she appears,) Diantha, and Professor Sycamore are battling Flare Grunts but they catch sight on Alan working with Team Flare. Malva tells Team Rocket to stand back as she handles this before going to where Lysandre's weapon is. Team Rocket tries following her but they get caught up in explosions/vines and get blasted off.

Edit: I didn't see my replies before writing this:
@ storm12, I understand your points but this isn't the thread to complain about the League nor the anime. There's a "Biggest Flaws of the Anime" thread and "Kalos League Discussion" thread. I'm not happy about the loss either and there is more to Ash than just winning the League. Considering that you haven't watched nor cared about the anime in so long, you can't just say "the writers don't care about the anime/Ash." He does have (some) character development and there's so many things that the writers have put a lot of hard work and effort into this anime. Like Alexander18 said, they do care but you're right that they don't want to change some traditions or get out of their comfort zone which is why they're feeling the backlash. Of course the anime advertises for the games but it's a straight lie to say that there is absolutely no character development, potential, resolution in this anime. Also, I don't see why Ash should be written out just because he hasn't won a League yet. Winning a League isn't going to give him character development, it'll just be another achievement for him. Besides, there are new characters introduced in every saga. They have tons of potential, personality, stories, development, you name it. If you don't care about this anime then that's fine. No one's forcing you to watch it. I know its flaws but there are far more positives. No cartoon is perfect.

@Epicocity: The arc shall deliver! To be honest, I was way more sad and upset about our Lord Goodra's battle than Ash's loss. I'm rooting for my personal favorites that I've been spamming on (Manon and Champion Daigo being active players).

 

[Johtohfiller]

I specifically said him not aging isn't an issue, its that he has no stable character growth because it is reset/stunted every time he goes to a new region essentially. I

Except that's only true for Unova. Pikachu's strength varies but Ash has shown improvement.

 

[storm12]

I'm just glad that Serena's battling. It's a good thing she's not being active staying in the background.

My Predictions:
Before Ash gets hit by a Confuse Ray & captured, him and Alan are wondering what's going on and help each other. After hearing Lysandre's speech, they gather the group and get information from them and they split up. Puni chan wanders off and gathers a bunch of Cores, turning into Zygarde 10% and goes after Zygarde 50%. They lost sight of Puni chan but Bonnie mistaken the Red Zygarde as Puni chan at the Lumiose Tower. Clemont, Bonnie, and Serena head to the Gym where they find Xerosic trying to take over the Gym ad their dad and Clembot fighting him. Clembot gets mind controlled/broken and Clemont would have to shut down Clembot and fight Xerosic. Puni chan turns into Zygarde 50% and battles the Red Zygarde. Bonnie sees the real Puni chan and wants to be by its side. Since it was getting too dangerous for them, Champion Daigo appears on his helicopter persuading Serena and Bonnie to get on before they get hurt. Bonnie doesn't want to but Serena pulls her back (seeing as though in one of the previews, Bonnie's crying and pulling her hand out.) Serena tries helping Puni chan with Braixen where they attack by air.

Meanwhile a Pokémon appears, Alan and Ash attack it but then a Grunt comes out and surprises them, hitting Ash with a Confuse Ray. Pikachu tries to wake up Ash but faints. The Grunt reminds Alan what he must do and he carries Ash to Malva. Ash is taken inside to be tested as Lysandre's experiment. He wakes up wondering why he is strapped on. The weapon is used on Ash, causing him pain. Ash begs Alan to help him but Alan betrays him, telling him this is for the greater good (whatever Lysandre is planning to use on him). Alan leaves to find Manon. Manon doesn't know what's going on and catches sight of Puni chan near the forest and goes there. Pikachu wakes up from the Confuse Ray and goes to find Ash. Pikachu witnesses Ash in pain and when the weapon is stopped, Pikachu springs into action. He uses Iron Tail on the cuffs and Ash is freed. Ash sends out all his Pokémon and they battle Malva's Houndoom & Lysandre's Pyroar. They all get defeated and captured, the last going down is Greninja.

Shota, (Corni if she appears,) Diantha, and Professor Sycamore are battling Flare Grunts but they catch sight on Alan working with Team Flare. Malva tells Team Rocket to stand back as she handles this before going to where Lysandre's weapon is. Team Rocket tries following her but they get caught up in explosions/vines and get blasted off.

Edit: I didn't see my replies before writing this:
@ storm12, I understand your points but this isn't the thread to complain about the League nor the anime. There's a "Biggest Flaws of the Anime" thread and "Kalos League Discussion" thread. I'm not happy about the loss either and there is more to Ash than just winning the League. Considering that you haven't watched nor cared about the anime in so long, you can't just say "the writers don't care about the anime/Ash." He does have (some) character development and there's so many things that the writers have put a lot of hard work and effort into this anime. Like Alexander18 said, they do care but you're right that they don't want to change some traditions or get out of their comfort zone which is why they're feeling the backlash. Of course the anime advertises for the games but it's a straight lie to say that there is absolutely no character development, potential, resolution in this anime. Also, I don't see why Ash should be written out just because he hasn't won a League yet. Winning a League isn't going to give him character development, it'll just be another achievement for him. Besides, there are new characters introduced in every saga. They have tons of potential, personality, stories, development, you name it. If you don't care about this anime then that's fine. No one's forcing you to watch it. I know its flaws but there are far more positives. No cartoon is perfect.

@Epicocity: The arc shall deliver! To be honest, I was way more sad and upset about our Lord Goodra's battle than Ash's loss. I'm rooting for my personal favorites that I've been spamming on (Manon and Champion Daigo being active players).

I didn't say he should be written out because he hasnt won a league yet. I must say you either get the wrong end of the stick or you seem to twist what I say. Look. All im saying is the writers should have capitalised on the 20th anniversary hype and let Ash win. With that, they could have let him fade out and passed the torch to a new character, a blank slate. OR they could have let him win and found a way for him to continue his 'journey' onto Alola to try the new challenge of Island trials. The later option would have been entirely feasible but to me, the less satisfying one because it comes with the likelihood of Pikachu losing to early route pokemon after having defeated 2 pseudo legendaries in this league. This is the problem with not just letting go of Ash, is that every thing he and Pikachu achieve is undermined when they get to a new region. Yes there can be growth and personality but it always comes with the catch that we KNOW the writers are never going to let him win a league because it becomes too much of a faff for them to resolve. That is what i dislike.

Furthermore I'm not trying to say winning a league = character development but it's what would have been the most natural culmination of his character after what he has said and done in Kalos and the last 19 damn years. It was time. Yes there can be 'more to Ash' but this has been his aim and his raison d'etre from day one of the anime all that time ago.

Except that's only true for Unova. Pikachu's strength varies but Ash has shown improvement.

I meant more in terms of replacing his team each time. Even aside from Unova there are other instances where he seems to take on temporary amnesia.

My ranty post was quite ranty but im in a cranky mood so sorry everyone. This is why i've steered clear of the anime for so long because it tends to have that effect on me!

 

[dp045]

What worries me now is that we may have the best of all anime pokemon but will be despised and underrated so I happened at the end of the league, I just hope that later can exploit.

 

[satopi]

I didn't say he should be written out because he hasnt won a league yet. I must say you either get the wrong end of the stick or you seem to twist what I say. Look. All im saying is the writers should have capitalised on the 20th anniversary hype and let Ash win. With that, they could have let him fade out and passed the torch to a new character, a blank slate. OR they could have let him win and found a way for him to continue his 'journey' onto Alola to try the new challenge of Island trials. The later option would have been entirely feasible but to me, the less satisfying one because it comes with the likelihood of Pikachu losing to early route pokemon after having defeated 2 pseudo legendaries in this league. This is the problem with not just letting go of Ash, is that every thing he and Pikachu achieve is undermined when they get to a new region. Yes there can be growth and personality but it always comes with the catch that we KNOW the writers are never going to let him win a league because it becomes too much of a faff for them to resolve. That is what i dislike.

Okay well I apologize for misunderstanding your post. Though you did make this whole rant just because you didn't get what you wanted which lead to you ranting about other things. Now about the Team Flare arc...

My ranty post was quite ranty but im in a cranky mood so sorry everyone. This is why i've steered clear of the anime for so long because it tends to have that effect on me!

Do you feel better now that you have that out of your system? If so, good.

 

[Mr. Guy]

Prediction: Team Rocket will save Ash.

Olympia said that they would also play a role in this fiasco.