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Dawn's Performance

SUPERSTARZZ

The Cool Pip!
Most of the people in this forum has said the following things:

1) Dawn handles her Pokemon poorly:
a) Dawn made Ambipom look "weaker" than Ash ever did.
b) Dawn never used Buneary that much.
c) Dawn always favor Piplup.
2) Dawn almost always takes advice from Zoey.
3) Dawn is a "not-so-good" Pokemon Contest Coordinator. (She was eliminated in the appeal round for two consecutive Contests).
4) Dawn is better at battling than appealing.

Do you think Dawn has done well so far?
Do you think she suffered problems like the aforementioned ones above because she's just beginning?
If you think she has not done well, what do you think she should do?

NOTE: Please do not compare Dawn to May. Since I joined this forum, I also noticed no one has ever created this thread.
 
Yeah I think that it's just because she is new to the whole thing, and same with Ambipom it was a new pokemon to her and sure she went overboard with the swift in one of the appeal rounds.
 
Well I agree with you about the Aipom and Pipulp thing. I'm sure Dawn will get better in contests later on. All she needs is advice from some people and maybe a bit of a confidince boost. Since her last lost she's lost confidince, a lot of it and needs to get it back before her next contests or she might quite them in the end and go depressed all her life from doing that. Oh also agree with your point on Buneary, she hardly ever uses that poor thing. And yes she need t use her own advice more than just Zoeys.
 
Well, I'm sure that once Mikuri/Wallace, and Haruka shows up, Hikari should no longer be depressed as she is currently. We just don't see her practice though. We always see Satoshi training his monsters, like his current training with Gligar, so what are they doing with Hikari other than by dressing up monsters? I'm not familiar with the games, but are these clothes the replacements of Contest stats in Cool, Beauty, Smart, Cute, and Tough?
 
There is a dress up portion for the Pokemon in Super Contests now, but it looks like it was translated into the Coordinators themselves dressing up in the anime. There was also a dancing portion in the Super Contests that looks like it was axed completely, which is a shame because that's the part of the Super Contests I liked.

It looks like Cool, Smart, Cute, and Tough aren't covered at all in the Contests outside of which type of Pokemon and techniques each Coordinator uses. The main traveling coordinator usually use a mix of Cute and Beauty Pokemon. The antagonists (Jessie and Harley) usually use Tough Pokemon. The Rivals usually use Cool and Smart Pokemon. Higher seeds usually use Beauty and Smart Pokemon (teh Milotic).

Getting onto Dawn herself I think she has three main problems which working on will help her do wonders.

The first being that she doesn't train enough. Dawn usually puts off any and all Training for the next Contest until right before or the day of the Contest. Even if she's seen training elsewhere she's usually training for her strength, battling, instead of her weakness in Appeals. Dawn needs to practice Appeals more. Like constantly.

The second in being that her team fundamentals are skewed. Not every Pokemon is going to be good at the battling portion, and not every Pokemon is going to be good at the appealing portion. Dawn's tried to use everything she's had for both with the only attempt she made of trying to utilize their strengths being the practice episode " A Stand Up Sit Down ". Dawn's last appeal with Ambipom showed us that Ambipom's too strong to do the types of Appeals that Dawn has in mind, and might be better suited for the battling rounds. Buneary's another Pokemon I think's better suited for the battling round since she did do pretty well in both of the battles she was in despite a loss. Then again we've never seen Buneary appeal. Ever. Pachirisu's shown that it could do pretty good appeals but might not be the best battler given it's problems with channeling its electricity (and concentrating for that matter). Dawn choosing Ambipom over it in her gym battle seems to indicate that Dawn feels the same way. It might be better in appeals. Of course when a Coordinator gets higher up in skill she could start training her Pokemon for both segments. Piplup's shown its both a strong battler and appealer since it passed both segments solo. Dawn her a long way of working with all of her Pokemon to turn them into Grand Festival material, and she better start soon.

The last problem is something that just about everyone noticed by now; Dawn seems to be keen on taking everyone else's advice instead of figuring out what works for herself. I hope that much of the same thing doesn't happen when Dawn meets Wallace since that'll be doing her more harm than good despite his good intentions. Dawn can't seem to escape the shadow of other coordinators because she's yet to develop her own style of handling things. We saw that May (a string of attacks leading to a big finish), Harley (the creep factor), Zoey (appeals with cool after effects), Nando (musical appeals), Jessie (bodily harm), and even Ash (speed) have a kind of consistency behind their appeals yet Dawn's seem to be all over the place.

It's not too late for Dawn to turn things around. It's only halftime.
 
Dawn's current appeal spree is typical of most rookie contestants, as she is still to encroach a proper approach to contests. As far as I see right now, we are digesting the penguin with it being shoved down our gobs enough, and then Ambipom is more of the powerhouse, like Combusken was with May.

Pachy, like stated earlier, is more of a proper contest pokemon, although it has flaws controlling the electricity inside it. Buneary, being typically shafted, is naturally the Uber Contest Star, what with Ice Beam and possible elemental punches to add as well.

Dawn's flaw is that she's still prepubescent contest-wise.
 
I think Dawn needs to worry more about how her pokemon look rather than her self, and she needs to get out of this fumk because its getting really really old IMO. Also her apeal with Ambipom could have gone better, and so could her apeal in Hearthome City, but she got ahead of herself and got cocky and lost that one and the Saloceon, which IMO was a let down cause I wanted to see Ambipom used in the Battle round too.
 
in contests there are two types of appealing involved. firstly, we have the main appeal round where a pokemon has to show its grace and beauty. the second appeal is during the battle-its a contest of how beautifully u can attack ur opponent. I think Dawn's messed up between the two categories. For example, that swift attack ambipom used would earn Dawn a lot of credit if she had used it in the battle round. she needs to figure out what to use and when to use... I believe she has gained some ideas by now. hopefully she will turn out to be much better in the next contest.
 
I think she used the Swift thing like that because she remember Jessie using Aipom's Swift in that one unofficial contest. The problem is that won't cut it in a real Contest. What she needs to do is to use Buneary in the Appeals round instead of saving it for the Battle Round because it has some potentially beautiful combos. Use Ambipom in the Battle Round, since battling was its forte on Ash's team. Pachirisu is an Appeals round Pokemon for now, but it could be useful in Double Battle rounds. That potential increases if she does get Swinub, since it would have a resistence to Pachirisu's electric attacks, especially Discharge. Piplup needs to be used less overall, but if anything she should it in the Battle Round. After all, it already beat Kenny's Prinplup, which is supposedly stronger.

Yeah, a lot, but if she can get it together, she can win.
 
Getting onto Dawn herself I think she has three main problems which working on will help her do wonders.

The first being that she doesn't train enough. Dawn usually puts off any and all Training for the next Contest until right before or the day of the Contest. Even if she's seen training elsewhere she's usually training for her strength, battling, instead of her weakness in Appeals. Dawn needs to practice Appeals more. Like constantly.
Yes, I agree on this.

The second in being that her team fundamentals are skewed. Not every Pokemon is going to be good at the battling portion, and not every Pokemon is going to be good at the appealing portion. Dawn's tried to use everything she's had for both with the only attempt she made of trying to utilize their strengths being the practice episode " A Stand Up Sit Down ".
A practice contest is not practice?

Dawn's last appeal with Ambipom showed us that Ambipom's too strong to do the types of Appeals that Dawn has in mind, and might be better suited for the battling rounds.
What a person has in mind and the strength of a Pokemon of doing the appeal are two completely different things. Just because a Pokemon overused an appeal doesn't mean it can't be worked on and lessen the amount to where the trainer wants it to be. The only problem with Dawn doing this, as mentioned already, is not enough practice.

Buneary's another Pokemon I think's better suited for the battling round since she did do pretty well in both of the battles she was in despite a loss. Then again we've never seen Buneary appeal. Ever.
Thus, no conclusion can be drawn about Buneary.

Pachirisu's shown that it could do pretty good appeals but might not be the best battler given it's problems with channeling its electricity (and concentrating for that matter).
Pachirisu's electricty problem is improving though. Thus, it still has potential to be considered a good battler.

Dawn choosing Ambipom over it in her gym battle seems to indicate that Dawn feels the same way.
Or not. The way I see it, Ambipom was really chosen to be in the gym battle to begin with simply because it proved to be a strong battler. The decisive decision, as I recall, just became whether her third Pokemon would be Buneary or Pachirisu. I have to watch the episode again to make sure.

The last problem is something that just about everyone noticed by now; Dawn seems to be keen on taking everyone else's advice instead of figuring out what works for herself.
Yet people can't explain well on the concept and just do not look at it closely enough to interpret it well.

I hope that much of the same thing doesn't happen when Dawn meets Wallace since that'll be doing her more harm than good despite his good intentions.
Proof? The episodes and future ones after have not been aired yet. Thus, you can't derive a conclusion that it will be doing her more harm.

Dawn can't seem to escape the shadow of other coordinators because she's yet to develop her own style of handling things.
Depends on what you mean on handling things. We can obviously see that Dawn can handle things better had she was given advice (Hearthome Contest), as oppose to no advice (Solaceon Contest).

We saw that May (a string of attacks leading to a big finish), Harley (the creep factor), Zoey (appeals with cool after effects), Nando (musical appeals), Jessie (bodily harm), and even Ash (speed) have a kind of consistency behind their appeals yet Dawn's seem to be all over the place.
That's not enough to justify that is Dawn's problem. I could easily say that Kenny has that same factor yet why did he make it pass the appeal round? Compare Alakazam's appeal to Breloom's appeal and explain what consistency is there.


Pachy, like stated earlier, is more of a proper contest pokemon, although it has flaws controlling the electricity inside it. Buneary, being typically shafted, is naturally the Uber Contest Star, what with Ice Beam and possible elemental punches to add as well.
Buneary has yet to perform in a contest appeal round so you can't really say it will be the "uber contest star".


in contests there are two types of appealing involved. firstly, we have the main appeal round where a pokemon has to show its grace and beauty. the second appeal is during the battle-its a contest of how beautifully u can attack ur opponent. I think Dawn's messed up between the two categories. For example, that swift attack ambipom used would earn Dawn a lot of credit if she had used it in the battle round. she needs to figure out what to use and when to use... I believe she has gained some ideas by now. hopefully she will turn out to be much better in the next contest.
In the battle between Dawn and Zoey after the contest, Dawn did the exact appeal as she did in the contest. Yet Ambipom was struck out by Zoey's Pokemon. So that's not going to earn her any points at all. It's going to decrease it.
 
I think the whole reason for this is because Dawn is a rookie Coordinator.

She is just less imaginative than May. They're both inexperienced at the start, but May actually had the advantage in terms of confidence and determination.
 
I think the whole reason for this is because Dawn is a rookie Coordinator.

She is just less imaginative than May. They're both inexperienced at the start, but May actually had the advantage in terms of confidence and determination.

Hey, what's uber?
 
I think the whole reason for this is because Dawn is a rookie Coordinator.

She is just less imaginative than May. They're both inexperienced at the start, but May actually had the advantage in terms of confidence and determination.

Hey, what's uber?
 
Pikachu is uber. It's behavior is probably the best definition.

A practice contest is not practice?

Depends. While putting yourself in that kind of scenario might be good occasionally its still no substitute for practicing technique the traditional way. The idea behind practicing is that you'll be ready for any scenario regardless of what it might be. When playing out scenarios, specifically battle scenarios, you have to keep in mind that no two scenarios will ever be the same. I guess that's why the 'ballerina dodge' that Dawn and Ash both use isn't working as effectively as it was before. Pikachu couldn't pull it off against Reiji's Staraptor and Buneary couldn't against Maylene's Meditite. I think it's a sign that we might be getting a new technique soon, or at least I hope so.

What a person has in mind and the strength of a Pokemon of doing the appeal are two completely different things. Just because a Pokemon overused an appeal doesn't mean it can't be worked on and lessen the amount to where the trainer wants it to be.

The thing is that Dawn's problems in the last Contest could've been very easily prevented since she did indeed work on the Appeal that she used prior to using it in the Contest, albeit once again the day of the Contest. The easiest and most obvious solution would've been not to use the Pokemon you got yesterday in the Contest you're going to be doing today.

From what we've seen from Dawn already she's pretty much confirmed to be a visual person in regards to how she sees her appeals and wants her Pokemon to work to get as close to her ideals as possible, which is completely possible if she practices. The problem is that she often overshoots or undershoots the strength and capabilities of her Pokemon when she visualizes. She did it before in Piplup before when practicing her first Contest's appeal, she did it with Pachirisu's solo appeal, and she did it once more with Ambipom's appeal. If you really worked closely with her Pokemon to pick out their personal strengths and weaknesses she could've at least foresaw a problem the third time or so around.

Thus, no conclusion can be drawn about Buneary.

Meh. I know it's bad practice but I'm pretty much convinced that Buneary's going to be one of the battlers. She seems to have that kind of battler's charisma which is hard to describe in few words. That's not to say that her appeals will be bad but I'm doubting that's where her strength will be.

Pachirisu's electricty problem is improving though. Thus, it still has potential to be considered a good battler.

Its problems with concentration/focus which I mentioned is probably what'll do it in like it did Totodile in.

Or not. The way I see it, Ambipom was really chosen to be in the gym battle to begin with simply because it proved to be a strong battler. The decisive decision, as I recall, just became whether her third Pokemon would be Buneary or Pachirisu. I have to watch the episode again to make sure.

The order was Buneary, Ambipom, and Piplup. Buneary was KOed by Meditite, Ambipom KOed Meditite only to be OHKOed by Lucario, and Piplup was KOed by Lucario. It seems like Pachirisu wasn't even considered if she threw Buneary and Ambipom out there first considering they're both weak to the gym's type.

Proof? The episodes and future ones after have not been aired yet. Thus, you can't derive a conclusion that it will be doing her more harm.

" I hope "

If Wallace simply tells her 'you should do it this way' instead of finding her own way of doing things he won't be much better than the rest of them. I severely doubt that any one person's advice will pull Dawn out of the slump she's in regardless of how many frilly ribbons the man's won. At best it'll be the second step towards making a comeback, the first being not running head first into every Contest she finds in hopes of redeeming herself.

Depends on what you mean on handling things.

I explained it in the sentence that followed.

That's not enough to justify that is Dawn's problem. I could easily say that Kenny has that same factor yet why did he make it pass the appeal round? Compare Alakazam's appeal to Breloom's appeal and explain what consistency is there.

That's why I specifically left Kenny off the list. It seems that he's only getting by in the Appeals Round so he could fight Dawn or another Rival later on in the battling rounds of the Contests. I'll admit that his Breeloom appeal was probably the worst one we've seen in Diamond / Pearl so far yet he still managed to get to the semifinals. Since Kenny's so Plain Jane already compared to the other Coordinators I expect as much from him, but not so much from Dawn.

Besides Dawn's beat him already so it's not like he's going to be a major threat like Zoey already proved herself to be. Jessie beat him even.
 
Depends. While putting yourself in that kind of scenario might be good occasionally its still no substitute for practicing technique the traditional way. The idea behind practicing is that you'll be ready for any scenario regardless of what it might be.
That's just half of it; the other half of the point of practicing is to strive for improvement on something. Pachirisu's appeal in the practice contest was just a test of where the appeal is at. In the actual Floaroma Contest, it did a near identical appeal but better.

When playing out scenarios, specifically battle scenarios, you have to keep in mind that no two scenarios will ever be the same. I guess that's why the 'ballerina dodge' that Dawn and Ash both use isn't working as effectively as it was before. Pikachu couldn't pull it off against Reiji's Staraptor and Buneary couldn't against Maylene's Meditite. I think it's a sign that we might be getting a new technique soon, or at least I hope so.
Yes, and it is probably why the technique is failing.

The thing is that Dawn's problems in the last Contest could've been very easily prevented since she did indeed work on the Appeal that she used prior to using it in the Contest, albeit once again the day of the Contest. The easiest and most obvious solution would've been not to use the Pokemon you got yesterday in the Contest you're going to be doing today.
Depends on how you see it. It was quite clear that Dawn had the appeal planned out already with Aipom, so she thought Ambipom would have a similar fashion, which is not all that true since she lost, but it was the only thing she got at that point. Thus this provides an advantage point if she used Ambipom as opposed to her other Pokemon since she doesn't an appeal set up for her other Pokemon. And this again supports the idea that she need practice way before a contest.

The problem is that she often overshoots or undershoots the strength and capabilities of her Pokemon when she visualizes. She did it before in Piplup before when practicing her first Contest's appeal, she did it with Pachirisu's solo appeal, and she did it once more with Ambipom's appeal. If you really worked closely with her Pokemon to pick out their personal strengths and weaknesses she could've at least foresaw a problem the third time or so around.
Perhaps, but Piplup's practiced appeal (not the one before the contest) was completely ditched for a charged Peck and Bubblebeam combo and Pachirisu's appeal was just a technicality problem with its electricity which got handled before the actual contest. Yet both of them passed the appeal round, so they clearly did not have flaws in them. Really, the only actual real problem was Ambipom's appeal in which she overdid it during the contest, as opposed to before the contest.

Its problems with concentration/focus which I mentioned is probably what'll do it in like it did Totodile in.
Not likely.

The order was Buneary, Ambipom, and Piplup. Buneary was KOed by Meditite, Ambipom KOed Meditite only to be OHKOed by Lucario, and Piplup was KOed by Lucario. It seems like Pachirisu wasn't even considered if she threw Buneary and Ambipom out there first considering they're both weak to the gym's type.
I was refering to the point where she decided which Pokemon to use for the gym battle. Dawn seemed to have chosen her Pokemon based on how advantageful they will be in battle. In the episode, she chooses Piplup first then Ambipom as her secondary choice, then Buneary as her last choice for which Pokemon she will be using. However, Dawn did not give a reason why she didn't use Pachirisu so that gives off a pretty good assumption that there was something more in Buneary than there was in Pachirisu.

If Wallace simply tells her 'you should do it this way' instead of finding her own way of doing things he won't be much better than the rest of them. I severely doubt that any one person's advice will pull Dawn out of the slump she's in regardless of how many frilly ribbons the man's won. At best it'll be the second step towards making a comeback, the first being not running head first into every Contest she finds in hopes of redeeming herself.
But it won't be a person, we also have May returning. At this point, there is pretty much a very good prediction that she will have a role in helping out Dawn's condition.
 
Dawn's main problem is she is an inexperienced coordinator that still has lots of things to learn. I’m sure she’ll get the hang of it in time, though we might have to wait a bit longer. I’m more concerned of a badly written recovery than I am of the slump dragging on longer.

On to more specifics.

The dual performance in Hearthome wasn’t that bad (as the judges liked it), it was just other people were better. The problem with Ambipoms appeal was Dawn is making appeals she likes instead of thinking how the judges will see it, the fact that it had just evolved and she had only gotten in a little practice since didn't help matters.

She is a far better battler than she is at appeals. Buneary and Piplup both did very well for themselves. Pachirisu had major problems but it just needs a lot more training. With Ambipom I think Dawn just needs more time figuring out how to use her to her full potential.

The main thing here is this time around the girl coordinator isn’t almost instantly good. The writers are going to make her have to earn it. I for one think this should be seen as a positive, not a negative.
 
Most of the people in this forum has said the following things:

1) Dawn handles her Pokemon poorly:
a) Dawn made Ambipom look "weaker" than Ash ever did.
b) Dawn never used Buneary that much.
c) Dawn always favor Piplup.
2) Dawn almost always takes advice from Zoey.
3) Dawn is a "not-so-good" Pokemon Contest Coordinator. (She was eliminated in the appeal round for two consecutive Contests).
4) Dawn is better at battling than appealing.

Do you think Dawn has done well so far?
Do you think she suffered problems like the aforementioned ones above because she's just beginning?
If you think she has not done well, what do you think she should do?

NOTE: Please do not compare Dawn to May. Since I joined this forum, I also noticed no one has ever created this thread.


I don't have to much to add because everybody has it right on. Dawn is an inexperience cooridinator. I like how the writers have her being different than another coordinator that Ash and Brock knows because Dawn isn't all of a sudden winning all her contests. She has a ways to go but you root for her. With a region that is going to as long as Sinnoh seems to be that is a good thing.
 
she the worst. alway over-confident then failed depressed. don't train maybe because she care too much about her appearence so don't dare to go all out during training( afraid she will mess up her hair) almost never learn from mistake
 
That's just half of it; the other half of the point of practicing is to strive for improvement on something.

Well that's the obvious reason for practicing. Hehe.

Thus this provides an advantage point if she used Ambipom as opposed to her other Pokemon since she doesn't an appeal set up for her other Pokemon.

It'd mind boggling that she wouldn't have something set up for her other Pokemon just in case. Anything could've happened you know. Team Rocket could've been successful for once. Dawn didn't even know she was getting Apiom or Ambipom until the day she traded Buizel for it, and a few days (6 episodes) later she uses it in the Contest. Admittedly it looked like she was training Buizel to appeal and battle this time around, but it's still bad pratice to let your hopes ride on one Pokemon.

Yet both of them passed the appeal round, so they clearly did not have flaws in them.

Really? It's not really a matter of whether or not the appeal is flawless when determining who goes onto the next round. The eight that scored the highest in points are chosen. Dawn finished third behind Zoey with Piplup in her first pass, finished eighth behind Kenny and Jessie with Pachirisu her second pass, and failed to place in her other Contests. If Dawn's appeals really didn't have flaws in them she would've scored closer to the top.

Yeah Dawn did mess up on stage in the past (mainly with Pachirisu) but the thing was she saw the problem early and was able to take control of the situation. The thing with Ambipom's appeal is that Dawn completely overlooked what was obviously wrong and did nothing to fix it. She thought everything was fine, but the judges were looking at her at one point like they expected her to correct herself ... but she didn't. I think her not fixing the problem hurt her more than getting it wrong in the first place since they passed her when the exact same thing happened to Pachirisu.

Not likely.

We'll see where Pachirisu's at near the end of the season.

I was refering to the point where she decided which Pokemon to use for the gym battle. Dawn seemed to have chosen her Pokemon based on how advantageful they will be in battle. In the episode, she chooses Piplup first then Ambipom as her secondary choice, then Buneary as her last choice for which Pokemon she will be using. However, Dawn did not give a reason why she didn't use Pachirisu so that gives off a pretty good assumption that there was something more in Buneary than there was in Pachirisu.

Ah yeah. Sorry. I only remember the impending beating in the said episode.

It makes sense from one standpoint; Buneary had an attack that would be effective against Fighting Type Pokemon (Bounce) while Ambipom had an attack that would be effective against Lucario (Focus Punch). Piplup had another effective attack (Peck) and the benefit of being the favorite on its side esentially. That's not to say I agreed with her decision but I could see where she's coming from in saying that.

But it won't be a person, we also have May returning.

A number of people if you want to get technical.

May has her own problems to worry about, though, and it just so happens that Dawn might be able to help her.
 
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