Ash's Perceptions

[d4rk_tailed]

Wow....that Torterra thing for 2 episodes time passed me by, but now, since its looking likelier that Grotle will make the evo into big T in DP166 from the ep summary, how would it change Ash’s outlook on his Sinnoh team?

Dunno about you all, but I felt that the evo of Infernape might at least have been rewarded with a flashback of Ash’s previous evolved fire type Charizard, with Ash wondering how Infernape would work with him, then thinking how strong Charizard has become, and thinking about how good Infernape could be. When Grotle evolves, it would be a shame if Ash doesn’t do some reflection on the (surely) excitement of when he first had Sceptile.

But then, its something totally new for Ash, three fully evolved Pokemon (Staraptor), power that he has never had before. Whereas Kanto was 'young and fresh, lets be the best,' or Johto was 'turn up if you can be bothered,' and in Hoenn, it was kind of 'all for the team,' in Sinnoh.....thats gotta be some ego booster right?

So, now, would Ash feel Sinnoh a complete waste if he doesn’t reach the final or win the Sinnoh League? Would he become cocky, or would we see something new in his persona we’ve never seen before?

Point is, are the writers actually going to take their chance and do some serious character development with Ash, as a result of attaining three fully evos in one team, or will he still stay boring and ‘train every Pokemon for what it’s worth’ attitude?

 

[ijea4444]

I certainly think the League will go longer this time around. Before it has always been rushed and this entire saga IMO has been foreshadowing a an extensive and well-timed GF and Leage.(Mostly Dawn losing so much contests,Paul + All the other huge amount of rivals, E4/Cynthia basically becoming main cast, and that DP is going to be just if not longer than AG+BF)

Not to mention that Ash usually has a lot of unevolved pokemon during the Leagues.

Now just because I think the League is going to be longer, and that Ash will get farther, I'm still not 100% sure that Ash will win. He does seem more likely and it would seem really exciting to see Ash beat Paul and win the League, but I just feel that Ash winning right now, just won't happen.

 

[randomspot555]

Why would Infernape's evolution, or any evolution, prompt a flashback?


I mean, it's not like the show hasn't already tossed a lot of "Infernape and Charizard are sad and lonely Pokemon taken in by akind trainer after being owned by a heartless jerk" comparisons already. I don't think they need to spell it out for much more than they already have.

It's strange. Sometimes Ash'll comment on previously owned Pokemon, and sometimes he won't. When he encountered a young trainer early in Sinnoh catching some bug-type Pokemon, he flashed back to how HIS first capture was a bug-type, Caterpie. The same goes for Brock. Sometimes he'll talk about his former gym leader status (he seems to do this more in Sinnoh than he did in Johto and Hoenn) or Pokemon he doesn't keep with him, and other times he hasn't.

Other times, when it's something blatant like "ASH MEET MY HERACROSS ISN'T HE COOL?!?!?!?!" from COTD and Ash takes out his Pokedex as if he's never seen one before in his life.

But that might have more to do with Heracross being like the 4th most neglected Pokemon ever, with Kingler, Muk, and Tauros beating it out for the top three.

 

[ijea4444]

Why would Infernape's evolution, or any evolution, prompt a flashback?


I mean, it's not like the show hasn't already tossed a lot of "Infernape and Charizard are sad and lonely Pokemon taken in by akind trainer after being owned by a heartless jerk" comparisons already. I don't think they need to spell it out for much more than they already have.

It's strange. Sometimes Ash'll comment on previously owned Pokemon, and sometimes he won't. When he encountered a young trainer early in Sinnoh catching some bug-type Pokemon, he flashed back to how HIS first capture was a bug-type, Caterpie. The same goes for Brock. Sometimes he'll talk about his former gym leader status (he seems to do this more in Sinnoh than he did in Johto and Hoenn) or Pokemon he doesn't keep with him, and other times he hasn't.

Other times, when it's something blatant like "ASH MEET MY HERACROSS ISN'T HE COOL?!?!?!?!" from COTD and Ash takes out his Pokedex as if he's never seen one before in his life.

But that might have more to do with Heracross being like the 4th most neglected Pokemon ever, with Kingler, Muk, and Tauros beating it out for the top three.

SERIOUSLY! People who bring up "Ash is stupid, he owns/has seen that pokemon and he is pokedexing it. How incredibly stupid!" point are JUST AS BAD as misty freaks, people who think games=anime, and all those other insane groups.

Please it has been explained a billion times why they do it, it is for the sake of the audience, not for the sake of logic.

I know you weren't directly saying that, even just bringing it bad enough, because un-informed(you know what I mean) users are going to be sparked into discussion because of it.(just like how main female characters spark useless misty fights)

 

[Shinnie-tan]

So, now, would Ash feel Sinnoh a complete waste if he doesn’t reach the final or win the Sinnoh League? Would he become cocky, or would we see something new in his persona we’ve never seen before?

...wait why would he feel cocky or whatever with three fully evolved pokemon currently on his team? Ash has never placed much stock into evolution being the only way for his pokemon to get stronger before and he's not going to start now. As far as I'm concerned, if Ash can break past the top eight and get into the top four or even the top two, he'll most likely see that as an improvement. He'll never see any league as a waste because he's the kind of guy to get sad about his losses but quickly jump back and figure that they're learning experiences.

 

[d4rk_tailed]

...wait why would he feel cocky or whatever with three fully evolved pokemon currently on his team? Ash has never placed much stock into evolution being the only way for his pokemon to get stronger before and he's not going to start now. As far as I'm concerned, if Ash can break past the top eight and get into the top four or even the top two, he'll most likely see that as an improvement. He'll never see any league as a waste because he's the kind of guy to get sad about his losses but quickly jump back and figure that they're learning experiences.

So your answer is NO he wouldnt have character development

Fair play, but I still reckon even Ash can identify the difference and new options between going in with Pika, Monferno, Staraptor, Bui, Gible and Grotle compared to Pikachu, Staraptor, Buizel, Infernape, Gible and Torterra

 

[Spacialrend]

...wait why would he feel cocky or whatever with three fully evolved pokemon currently on his team? Ash has never placed much stock into evolution being the only way for his pokemon to get stronger before and he's not going to start now. As far as I'm concerned, if Ash can break past the top eight and get into the top four or even the top two, he'll most likely see that as an improvement. He'll never see any league as a waste because he's the kind of guy to get sad about his losses but quickly jump back and figure that they're learning experiences.

I agree with you, and based on Ash's motives, (is that the right word?) hat he's the type of guy who does not mind if they evolve or not, like its just a bonus to him, he couldn't care less what stage their in, that way he does not put pressure on his team, THEREFORE his team are more loyal to him, compared to Paul's, save for maybe Torterra

 

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Why cant Ash have to fully evolved starts?
Why doest that make Ash overpowered?
Why does having two starters fully evolved means he has to win the league?
Why dont you understand that pokemon win/loose in accordance to the decision writers do and evolution doesnt change it?

 

[S.Suikun]

Point is, are the writers actually going to take their chance and do some serious character development with Ash, as a result of attaining three fully evos in one team, or will he still stay boring and ‘train every Pokemon for what it’s worth’ attitude?

Any reason both can't occur? I mean, besides the fact that I fail to see how team evolutions have a bloody thing to do with character development, I don't see how he has to shift training styles that drastically with fully evolved Pokemon. And either way, the writers aren't going to change battle results because of it.

 

[Almighty Zard]

I really doubt this will affect the league too much either, sure this league Ash has more intense rivals than before but he's had intense rival's in the past as well..with the exeception of the hoenn league as Morrison was a joke, and Tyson was abit redundant after Harrison.

 

[Dax]

I do wonder if Infernape, Torterra and Staraptor will be his main battlers in the league. Swellow and Glalie ended up having the best performances in the Hoenn league and those were his only fully evolved pokemon there.

I don't think it will affect his placing in the league ( hopefully it will since it will suck to see him in the Top 8 again). It's more about the individual performances of the pokemon and I doubt Ash will see the performances of his team as a waste. He never does no matter how bad they do.

And in terms of flashback, they are not needed.

 

[Almighty Zard]

^i wouldn't doubt it, heck Jason never even lost a league match directly, it's only losses were by Destiny Bond and a beam shoot out which more like draws than actual defeats.

Corphish also acceled abit in hoenn despite not being fully evolved maybe Buizel will do the same, after we all know that thing loves to fight.

 

[Fossil Man]

My answer is no.

Ash will not change at all about anything. He'll still think the same about what his pokemon are, only changing slight differences about battle style and then just have the "Train every pokemon for what it's worth" attitude, even when he will lose.

Why I think this is just because that's how he always thinks. Let's face it, he won't change a bit now that he has three fully evolved pokemon on his team...which I'm quite glad that they did evolve more than just one or two and make them uber powerful and not listen. They might be getting a little more screen time BECAUSE they are fully evolved, but that's beside the point.

Ash is always Ash. I would actually like him to change a little bit though, it'd make interesting character development.

 

[Shinnie-tan]

So your answer is NO he wouldnt have character development

His pokemon evolving to their final stages =/= character development. Character development wise, Ash has always grown the most from his losses rather than his wins.

And as Spacialrend pointed out, to Ash his pokemon evolving is just a bonus. It's Ash's belief that evolution doesn't matter for a pokemon to be strong. Even if Monferno didn't evovle into Infernape and Grotle wont evolve into Torterra, it wouldn't matter to Ash because Ash will raise them to the best of their abilities and prove that 'unevolved' pokemon are just as good as their evolved counterparts. It's all the same to him with perhaps an adjustment in tactics, if their evolution changes things a lot, like with Turtwig to Grotle. But otherwise? Things will remain the same for Ash and his pokemon.

Also, Ash has never placed the loss at his pokemon's feet - he always blames himself when he loses a match.

 

[Ash-kid]

I really don't like the way that Infernape and Torterra evolved. I think it's rushed somehow because Torterra will evolve probably not during a battle, and I expected that Infernape will evolve against Paul in the league.

So, now, would Ash feel Sinnoh a complete waste if he doesn’t reach the final or win the Sinnoh League?

Yes, I think he should be sad if he won't win the league, or at least will get to the finals. it's not a waste but I think it will be a big disappointment.

 

[Grei]

SERIOUSLY! People who bring up "Ash is stupid, he owns/has seen that pokemon and he is pokedexing it. How incredibly stupid!" point are JUST AS BAD as misty freaks, people who think games=anime, and all those other insane groups.

Please it has been explained a billion times why they do it, it is for the sake of the audience, not for the sake of logic.

The writers could have done it in a less-stupid way, however. Dawn is there, and she has never seen Ash's Heracross. She easily could've Pokedex'd it, and it would've made more sense than Ash looking for information on a Pokemon that he has had for years.

Why cant Ash have to fully evolved starts?

Starters are special and Ash usually only gets one Starter fully evolved (though he didn't even get that far in Johto). This is a first for him, it doesn't usually happen.

Why does that make Ash overpowered?

Because Ash has only ever had one fully evolved Starter on his regional team at once. Kanto it was Charizard. Johto there wasn't one, though he had Bayleef. Hoenn he only had one Starter, but that took forever to fully evolve to Sceptile. Ash will now have two fully evolved Starter Pokemon, Pokemon that are considered by most to be stronger than the average Pokemon.

Why does having two starters fully evolved means he has to win the league?

It's that and a few other factors. The Sinnoh Saga has been fleshed out a lot. It's the longest saga we've had, and it still has a ways to go. A lot of development for Ash's Pokemon has gone into it. It truly seems like Ash's adventures could be coming to a close, for some. So, some people naturally feel that Ash could win the league--the fact that Ash is getting many powerful Pokemon helps prove that he may have what it takes in the League, so he may win.

It's not that Two Second-Stage Starters=Winning League, it's Lots of strong Pokemon=Winning League.

Why dont you understand that pokemon win/loose in accordance to the decision writers do and evolution doesnt change it?

The writers are influenced by that, however. They know that it's unreasonable for a Torterra to fall to a Pokemon like Buneary or Vaporeon. They know that a bigger, fully-evolved Pokemon is gonna be stronger and won't be defeated by as many Pokemon as a basic-stage Starter Pokemon.

The only time that a Torterra would fall to, say, a Bidoof, would be if it was a plot point to show Torterra's weakness or Bidoof's immense strength. Otherwise, the writers won't make a huge Pokemon lose to a small Pokemon (unless that Pokemon is Pikachu or something similar).

I really don't like the way that Infernape and Torterra evolved. I think it's rushed somehow because Torterra will evolve probably not during a battle, and I expected that Infernape will evolve against Paul in the league.

You can't actually say that, however. I don't personally see anything wrong with how Monferno evolved--I think the point was that Paul would see Monferno evolve into Infernape. Perhaps this foreshadows Paul respecting Ash in the League or something, who knows?

As for Torterra, you can't say that you disliked how he evolved when he hasn't yet, and we have no way of knowing how he will evolve. It's possible that Grotle will evolve in a battle, it's possible Grotle will evolve in a different way. But you don't know yet, so why would you be disappointed with something that hasn't happened yet?

So, now, would Ash feel Sinnoh a complete waste if he doesn’t reach the final or win the Sinnoh League?

Yes. So much work has gone into Ash's Sinnoh team, it'd be a waste if they only make the top 8. I think Ash should win the League, though not necessarily beat the Elite Four. But if he only makes the Top 8 again, I'll be disappointed, and I'll wonder--what was this entire saga for, then?

 

[Lorde]

Point is, are the writers actually going to take their chance and do some serious character development with Ash, as a result of attaining three fully evos in one team, or will he still stay boring and ‘train every Pokemon for what it’s worth’ attitude?

Well they haven't in the past, I don't think they'll focus on him only because he has three fully evolved Pokemon. The story will focus on him only because he's the main character and there's an important event coming up for him (The Pokemon League). Knowing Ash, he'll continue to do what he does now, training his Pokemon in his own way and not even bothering to focus on each Pokemon individually for a long amount of time as he should.

 

[d4rk_tailed]

Wow Grei....thats good justification going on there

I mean, besides the fact that I fail to see how team evolutions have a bloody thing to do with character development

............you serious? I mean, no laughs here, I really did mean having a team that everyone else percieves as good (even in the animé, theres going to be opponents with fresh new **** in their trousers) might change how Ash views the rest of Sinnoh from here. As in, the amount of time invested with these guys bar Gible would make it really hurt if he didnt get some perk in terms of battling results....if you catch my drift

Well they haven't in the past, I don't think they'll focus on him only because he has three fully evolved Pokemon. The story will focus on him only because he's the main character and there's an important event coming up for him (The Pokemon League) Knowing Ash, he'll continue to do what he does now, training his Pokemon in his own way.

Yeah...still reckon it would be a shame if the writers didnt at least make Ash get some fresh optimism about it....I doubt if he would ever get this situation again with 3 fully evos on-hand in the future.

 

[Ash-kid]

You can't actually say that, however. I don't personally see anything wrong with how Monferno evolved--I think the point was that Paul would see Monferno evolve into Infernape. Perhaps this foreshadows Paul respecting Ash in the League or something, who knows?

Yes. So much work has gone into Ash's Sinnoh team, it'd be a waste if they only make the top 8. I think Ash should win the League, though not necessarily beat the Elite Four. But if he only makes the Top 8 again, I'll be disappointed, and I'll wonder--what was this entire saga for, then?

Monferno didn't evolve during a battle. this was a disappointment for me. If it was evolving during the battle vs Empoleon I was happy. Torterra will most likely evolve to resolve the problem in the tower, as it writen in the little summary. Much less epic than I thought.

Yes. So much work has gone into Ash's Sinnoh team, it'd be a waste if they only make the top 8. I think Ash should win the League, though not necessarily beat the Elite Four. But if he only makes the Top 8 again, I'll be disappointed, and I'll wonder--what was this entire saga for, then?

He will probably make it to the semi-finals since in the Johto & Hoenn league he already got to the top-8.

 

[Grei]

Wow Grei....thats good justification going on there

Lol, is this sarcastic, or serious? : P

Torterra will most likely evolve to resolve the problem in the tower, as it writen in the little summary. Much less epic than I thought.

Which summary? The only summary I can find is in the first post in the DP166 topic, and from that, I see nothing indicating Grotle's evolution.

An ominous shadow is creeping towards Sunyshore Tower, which upholds the lives of the people in Sunyshore City. Meanwhile Ash has a fierce battle at Sunyshore Gym.

Suddenly, the lights inside the Gym go out. According to Volkner, something must have happened at the Sunyshore Tower, stopping the provision of electric power for the city.

The group hurriedly follows Volkner to the tower, only to discover that the entire tower has disappeared. The group is shocked, but then finds strange car tracks. When they follow them, they are faced with a familiar trio.

I don't see anything here that would indicate that Grotle is even gonna be in this episode, much less evolve to save the Vista Lighthouse. Is there another summary or something that mentions Torterra?