Iris

[satopi]

I didn't find any good arguements you gave. Which one?

Ok, even if I change the word 'despised' and use the word 'teased', that doesn't change the Iris was a kid herself and so her catchphrase felt kinda annoying and hypocritical, and I don't think that I'm the only one who thinks that way.

And every travelling companions of Ash cared for him. That's natural. But Serena did care for Ash some extra bit. Whenever Ash is having trouble during a battle or so(like in the first Gym battle with Wulfric), Serena looks a bit extra concerned, and she also believes in Ash an extra bit. When Wulfric Mega Evolves his Abomasnow(during the rematch), doesn't Serena say, 'It's OK, Ash can handle this', or in the Ash vs Sawyer battle in the rematch, when Ash-Greninja was busy dodging the Frenzy Plants from Mega Sceptile, didn't Serena say, 'Don't worry, Ash is one with Greninja right now, they won't give up until they have given it their all, or during Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X in the finals, didn't Serena say, 'It OK, Ash will definitely win''. See, she always showed some extra belief and concern for Ash compared to the other Pokegirls. This just shows her love for Ash clearly. So no, Serena isn't a May with plot-armour like you said.

Yeah she did care about him alot.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Don't fight about Pokégirls.

Plus, this show doesn't care that much about them. They delete them and replace them at every generation, they forget about them and wait for the target audience to do likewise.

Uh, the target audience doesn't forget them, going by almost any forum. The target audience is supposed to "age out" of Pokemon (some do, more don't). Besides, the show doesn't forget the girls. Each girl (except Iris) made a cameo beyond her generation, and Misty likely would have been like Brock if May hadn't worked out so well for them.

Yeah she did care about him.

You should probably just give up arguing with 345. It never gets anywhere.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Yeah she did care about him alot.

What's your point? I did agree in my post that every travelling companion of Ash cared for him. I don't remember saying anything against it.

 

[Lord Trollbias]

What's your point? I did agree in my post that every travelling companion of Ash cared for him. I don't remember saying anything against it.

One despised Ash through her annoying catchphrase

So she doesn't despise Ash then? Since you just admitted she cared for him.

 

[DankOverlord]

Are we just gonna ignore their relationship shown throughout the saga? Iris was a lot more hands on than Serena both physically and emotionally. They trained together, did a ton of activities together (tennis, dress up, Club battles, acting, swinging vines, saving Pokémon & their skins), ate together, shared each other thoughts... basically what friends do. Friendship doesn't consist of always agreeing, never fighting, and living in some type of utopian "perfect" relationship. That's just... unrealistic as there will always be one thing that ticks you off about that person.
He's actually a big fan of Iris. I hope he backs up why he thinks Iris hates Ash just because she, a kid, is calling Ash, a kid, a kid.

My point exactly . Thank you

 

[satopi]

What's your point? I did agree in my post that every travelling companion of Ash cared for him. I don't remember saying anything against it.

I just posted the same thing you claim about Serena which makes her a lover:

Serena always believed in Ash no matter what. That was a clear sign of how much she cared for Ash as a person and as a friend, so her love for Ash is unadulterated. Sure, after seeing Ash's flawed side, she became upset, as she had never seen Ash's flawed side before. But later on, did she realised her fault and went to look for Ash? Yes. Did she shed tears for it? Yes. So no, that's just a momentarily lapse, nothing else. I personally would have someone like Serena as my lover, who always believes in me and cares for me no matter what, that what I'd call unadulterated love.

And since you want to talk about how Serena was in one battle, I can do the same:

Props to Dawn for her cheerleading, but Serena also cheered for Ash- watch her comments during the Ash vs Sawyer and Ash vs Alain battle. She also blushed after Ash defeated Sawyer at the League.

Props to Cilan for joining in her cheering- listen to her comments during the Ash vs Roxie battle. Ash was about to give up hope, not believing in himself until he heard Iris' words of encouragement that fired up the fiery soul in his belly to defeat Roxie. Ash regained the strength and power automatically getting back up and commanding Pikachu, fueling their confidence because he was touched by Iris' words. That was the time where the handsome Ash overpowered Roxie's Pokémon and slammed down her last Pokémon, showing off his badass maturity and fool proof plan. Remember the time where he was battling against Cilan? Iris was the only one standing up to cheer him giving him a look of admiration... and continued to. She also surprised him by giving him a cute upside down look afterwards. Ash found the strength to never give up and was strengthened by her immense words, never leaving his side. Unlike Serena who made silly faces all the time, she totally doesn't have a relationship with Ash. All she did was try to hold his hand unlike Iris who knew how to touch him with such care. The one time they got in a really big fight and almost left each other was just a momentarily lapse and they both show the error of their ways.

 

[345ash-greninja]

So she doesn't despise Ash then? Since you just admitted she cared for him.

Change the word to 'teased' from 'despised' then. Anyway, that doesn't matter, as I did mention earlier that it's not exactly her 'teasing' Ash that bugged me, it's something else.

I just posted the same thing you claim about Serena which makes her a lover:

Yeah I had given my claims earlier about the fact that why Serena's love for Ash was 'true love'.

And since you want to talk about how Serena was in one battle, I can do the same:

Props to Cilan for joining in her cheering- listen to her comments during the Ash vs Roxie battle. Ash was about to give up hope, not believing in himself until he heard Iris' words of encouragement that fired up the fiery soul in his belly to defeat Roxie. Ash regained the strength and power automatically getting back up and commanding Pikachu, fueling their confidence because he was touched by Iris' words. That was the time where the handsome Ash overpowered Roxie's Pokémon and slammed down her last Pokémon, showing off his badass maturity and fool proof plan. Remember the time where he was battling against Cilan? Iris was the only one standing up to cheer him giving him a look of admiration... and continued to. She also surprised him by giving him a cute upside down look afterwards. Ash found the strength to never give up and was strengthened by her immense words, never leaving his side. Unlike Serena who made silly faces all the time, she totally doesn't have a relationship with Ash. All she did was try to hold his hand unlike Iris who knew how to touch him with such care. The one time they got in a really big fight and almost left each other was just a momentarily lapse and they both show the error of their ways.

Ok fine, then look at this part of my post I made earlier.

And every travelling companions of Ash cared for him. That's natural. But Serena did care for Ash some extra bit. Whenever Ash is having trouble during a battle or so(like in the first Gym battle with Wulfric), Serena looks a bit extra concerned, and she also believes in Ash an extra bit. When Wulfric Mega Evolves his Abomasnow(during the rematch), doesn't Serena say, 'It's OK, Ash can handle this', or in the Ash vs Sawyer battle in the League match, when Ash-Greninja was busy dodging the Frenzy Plants from Mega Sceptile, didn't Serena say, 'Don't worry, Ash is one with Greninja right now, they won't give up until they have given it their all, or during Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X in the finals, didn't Serena say, 'It OK, Ash will definitely win''. See, she always showed some extra belief and concern for Ash compared to the other Pokegirls. This just shows her love for Ash clearly. So no, Serena isn't a May with plot-armor like you said.

See, it's evident that Serena always showed some extra concern, care for Ash and and always beleived in him and his abilities. That's what makes Serena different from the other girls as a true lover.

 

[satopi]

See, it's evident that Serena always showed some extra concern, care for Ash and and always beleived in him and his abilities. That's what makes Serena different from the girls as a true lover.

And I have which I said:

Yeah she did care about him alot.

Iris is a true lover of Ash.

 

[DankOverlord]

Change the word to 'teased' from 'despised' then. Anyway, that doesn't matter, as I did mention earlier that it's not exactly her 'teasing' Ash that bugged me, it's something else.


Yeah I had given my claims earlier about the fact that why Serena's love for Ash was 'true love'.

Ok fine, then look at this part of my post I made earlier.


See, it's evident that Serena always showed some extra concern, care for Ash and and always beleived in him and his abilities. That's what makes Serena different from the girls as a true lover.

A lover that only thinks about hsi victory is not as helpful as a friend who stands up for you adn gvies you REAL encouragement, but seeing as how you annot accept being in the wrong I won't eventry to aargue any farther

.

Honestly lets go back on topic guys, we're ddealing with a stubborn user which will end in thisthread getting closed .


A thing I liked about Iris was her attitude she was "a better Misty" IMO

 

[345ash-greninja]

And I have which I said:


Iris is a true lover of Ash.

Like what. Did Iris show that extra concern for Ash that Serena did? That full faith and belief in Ash? Nah. So Serena always is Serena.

A lover that only thinks about hsi victory is not as helpful as a friend who stands up for you adn gvies you REAL encouragement, but seeing as how you annot accept being in the wrong I won't eventry to aargue any farther

Lol no. Serena comments during Ash's battles showed how much faith and believe she had in Ash's abilities, her concern when Ash is having trouble during a battle (like in the first Gym battle with Wulfric) shows her extra concern. This shows that Serena truly believed and cares for Ash no matter what.

Honestly lets go back on topic guys, we're ddealing with a stubborn user which will end in thisthread getting closed .

So you are just continuing what you were doing earlier. Can't counter one's argument, so make brash accusations.

 

[satopi]

A thing I liked about Iris was her attitude she was "a better Misty" IMO

Iris and Misty are nothing alike but Iris is definitely the better character. Ever notice on how her relationships with people are different? I loved how Iris would physically fight with a Pokémon, using her hands to catch a fish, and how her overconfidence of getting over 100 wins with her Drillbur got stomped once she faced Drayden. I also loved her way of traveling (jumping from tree to tree and swinging on vines) was faster and more creative. She's also really agile for usually landing on her feet. It's also funny on how dysfunctional her team is and how her ego drops when her Pokémon like Emolga or Dragonite wouldn't listen to her but later on, they start listening. Her focus episodes were usually interesting (not including the Axew Gets Lost episodes), I was really touched by her backstory with Excadrill... I'm a bit surprised it wasn't her official starter Pokémon lol. And I like it that he accepts Pokémon of any type, it doesn't have to be Dragon type and her relationship with both Dawn and Langley was really nice as it lasted.

 

[DankOverlord]

Iris and Misty are nothing alike but Iris is definitely the better character. Ever notice on how her relationships with people are different? I loved how Iris would physically fight with a Pokémon, using her hands to catch a fish, and how her overconfidence of getting over 100 wins with her Drillbur got stomped once she faced Drayden. I also loved her way of traveling (jumping from tree to tree and swinging on vines) was faster and more creative. She's also really agile for usually landing on her feet. It's also funny on how dysfunctional her team is and how her ego drops when her Pokémon like Emolga or Dragonite wouldn't listen to her but later on, they start listening. Her focus episodes were usually interesting (not including the Axew Gets Lost episodes), I was really touched by her backstory with Excadrill... I'm a bit surprised it wasn't her official starter Pokémon lol. And I like it that he accepts Pokémon of any type, it doesn't have to be Dragon type and her relationship with both Dawn and Langley was really nice as it lasted.

Honestly my only gripes are that she didn't evove her Haxorus and that she didn't reappeared in XY btu then again I wouldn't have liked to see her losing against Serena (Which would've happened with the anime's tradition but who knows)

 

[satopi]

Like what. Did Iris show that extra concern for Ash that Serena did? That full faith and belief in Ash? Nah. So Sad always is Serena.

Iris doesn't have to be concerned about Ash to fully believe in him, she critiques and helps him but never forces her own ideas on him because she knows Ash will do what Ash believes is best for himself and she accepts it without complaint.

Lol no. Serena comments during Ash's battles showed how much faith and believe she Ash's abilities, her concern when Ash is having trouble during a battle (like I'm the first Gym battle with Wulfric) shows her extra concern. This show that Serenat truly believed and cares for Ash no matter what.

Uh... doesn't ALL his friends comment on his battle? Shall I get into Mallow I mean she showed extra concern for Ash and comments on his battles... truly believing in the heavenly look & spirit that is Ash.

Honestly my only gripes are that she didn't evove her Haxorus and that she didn't reappeared in XY btu then again I wouldn't have liked to see her losing against Serena (Which would've happened with the anime's tradition but who knows)

Ha! I'm glad Iris stayed out of that shipping mess. Iris dodged a bullet here. She can appear whenever she's necessary.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Iris doesn't have to be concerned about Ash to fully believe in him, she critiques and helps him but never forces her own ideas on him because she knows Ash will do what Ash believes is best for himself and she accepts it without complaint.

Fine. But I'd rather accept someone as my lover who shows that extra concern for me and has full trust and faith in my abilities like Serena.

Uh... doesn't ALL his friends comment on his battle? Shall I get into Mallow I mean she showed extra concern for Ash and comments on his battles... truly believing in the heavenly look & spirit that is Ash.

Ok, look at Serena's comments during the Ash vs Wulfric, Ash vs Sawyer and the Ash vs Alain battle I mentioned. Doesn't it show some extra concern that Serena had for Ash and her full faith and trust in Ash's abilities? And you sure that there isn't something extra?

Ha! I'm glad Iris stayed out of that shipping mess. Iris dodged a bullet here. She can appear whenever she's necessary.

If she ever appears again I bet it'll be at the end of the Pokemon Anime when all of Ash's previous travelling companions will meet up with Ash.

 

[DankOverlord]

Uh... doesn't ALL his friends comment on his battle? Shall I get into Mallow I mean she showed extra concern for Ash and comments on his battles... truly believing in the heavenly look & spirit that is Ash.

THIS. I mean, Serena's love fro Ash and faith is admirable but she never went out of her way to make a notable effort to support Ash other than commenting.

And that's something even Max and Tracy did

Fine. But I'd rather accept someone as my lover who shows that extra concern for me and has full trust and faith in my abilities like Serena.

So a character is only "good" in your eyes if its a complete fangirl with no real goals or focus beyond her crush?
And nobody is talkign about lvoers, we're talkign about dedication and F R I E N D S H I P

Ok, look at Serena's comments during the Ash vs Wulfric, Ash vs Sawyer and the Ash vs Alain battle I mentioned. Doesn't it show some extra concern that Serena had for Ash and her full faith and trust in Ash's abilities? And you sure that there isn't something extra?

You literally just repeated your exact same words while giving zero real arguments, just stop dude you dig yourself deeper the more you talk

 

[U.N. Owen]

Ok, look at Serena's comments during the Ash vs Wulfric, Ash vs Sawyer and the Ash vs Alain battle I mentioned. Doesn't it show some extra concern that Serena had for Ash and her full faith and trust in Ash's abilities? And you sure that there isn't something extra?

Formal debate coach's advice: repeating the same argument and expecting different results only ticks off the people listening to or reading it.

 

[DankOverlord]

Formal debate coach's advice: repeating the same argument and expecting different results only ticks off the people listening to or reading it.

Debating anything with 345-ashgreninja in a nutshell

 

[345ash-greninja]

THIS. I mean, Serena's love fro Ash and faith is admirable but she never went out of her way to make a notable effort to support Ash other than commenting.

Maybe because she believed in Ash and his abilities? Whatever, but also prayed for Ash to win as well. When Ash is down to Greninja in the Ash vs Alain battle, Serena says with concern in her voice- Oh Ash, good luck. So she is also praying and wishing for Ash during battles.

So a character is only "good" in your eyes if its a complete fangirl with no real goals or focus beyond her crush?
And nobody is talkign about lvoers, we're talkign about dedication and F R I E N D S H I P

This is where I can't take your arguements seriously. Where did claim anything like that? I repeat- I prefer someone as a lover who always shows that extra concern for me and has full faith and belief in me. Do you understand now?

You literally just repeated your exact same words while giving zero real arguments, just stop dude you dig yourself deeper the more you talk

satopi referred to Mallow's/or anyone else's comments during Ash's battles, so I just told him to reconsider Serena's comments during Ash's battles and see that whether there is something extra evident or not. That's why I repeated myself. Your accusations doesn't discredit my point.

 

[satopi]

If she ever appears again I bet it'll be at the end of the Pokemon Anime when all of Ash's previous travelling companions will meet up with Ash.

Iris can't stay too far from where Ash is after all, he did try to catch her the first time they met. That's when you know he wants her!

Maybe because she believed in Ash and his abilities? Whatever, but also prayed for Ash to win as well. When Ash is down to Greninja in the Ash vs Alain battle, Serena says with concern in her voice- Oh Ash, good luck. So she is also praying and wishing for Ash during battles.

May did this many times (and under more intense situations like the Manaphy movie) and had a more physical, natural relationship with him which is why Advanceshipping is one of the strongest Ash ships.

 

[DankOverlord]

Maybe because she believed in Ash and his abilities? Whatever, but also prayed for Ash to win as well. When Ash is down to Greninja in the Ash vs Alain battle, Serena says with concern in her voice- Oh Ash, good luck. So she is also praying and wishing for Ash during battles.


This is where I can't take your arguements seriously. Where did claim anything like that? I repeat- I prefer someone as a lover who always shows that extra concern for me and has full faith and belief in me. Do you understand now?



satopi referred to Mallow's/or anyone else's comments during Ash's battles, so I just told him to reconsider Serena's comments during Ash's battles and see that whether there is something extra evident or not. That's why I repeated myself. Your accusations doesn't discredit my point.

You literally are still saying "fate and thinking about Ash"

And the problem is that you refer to this as if we were talking about who is a better lover and you even say that even tough we're talking about characters and thier impacts and dedication to supporting each other, keep saying that Serena had "fate" and wanted Ash to win but it isn't anything special or new beyond her one sided pointless crush taht went nowhere and left no real chagne in Ash's character.
And if you can only think of a character as a "lover" you have serous needs to remember that there is more to Pokegirls than being love interests or lovers, and Iris works fine as a friend amd much better than Serena because she had actual chemistry beyond being a yes woman who idolized Ash, she actually recognized his flaws but still liked him with them, and since you change your points of view and bring up pointless "counter-argument" just to attempt to be on the right

And your bias is so painfully obvious