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Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by GetInTheBagNebby_, Mar 27, 2017.

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  1. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Oh and just to clarify the 'kid' insult WAS used back at her odd times.
  2. SinnohEevee

    SinnohEevee Well-Known Member

    I liked Iris more in the movies.
  3. Rettan-Smogon

    Rettan-Smogon Banned

    I have my own theory why so many people hate Iris. I think the reason, why people call out Iris as the worst Pokémon character a lot more than other characters is more of the lack of fan service than anything else.

    Think about it. Why do people adore Serena so much? Is it because of her role and her interesting personality? It could be for some, but, and let's be honest here guys, the majority of fans really love Serena only because of her Shipping with Ash. Shipping is a huge deal for most fans, because since the beginning of the anime, fans always shipped Ash with another girl character. They always wanted that kind of fan service in the Anime. And with Serena the fans finally had that. But it's not only that. Serena is also when it comes to personality and looks the perfect dream girl for most male and even female viewers. She is cute, nice, polite, (most of the time) never talks back to someone, stays quite in the background and only talks if someone asked her something, bakes, wears beautiful dresses, has beautiful hair, and has no really big flaws in her personality and look. Serena is pretty much the perfect marketing tool for a shonen anime like Pokémon. She is pretty much the waifu wet dream for every male viewer and a typical role model figure for the female viewers, similar to a Disney princess.
    For me it's no big surprise, why Serena is so popular. She is everything a fan of the show always wanted to have for a Pokémon girl like her.

    Iris on the other hand wanted to be more her own unique character. She has her own unique hair style, her on unique personality, that is drastically different to the other girls and characters in general, she is the only one of the bunch, who we actually can see as a tomboy (and yes, ladies and gentlemen, Misty was never a tomboy from beginn with), Iris has got her own unique image with the whole jungle lifestyle and is overall a very different character compare to the ones we used to. And that was probably her biggest downfall for her. She is way to different to the typical Pokémon girl. She was not a character that was build up upon of fan service like Serena or even May and Dawn. A lot of fans hate her mostly because of her always calling out Ash as a kid. But I think that this catchphrase right there we could also see as a part for a not so common trope for a girl character for this anime. Iris, a girl character, actually has the guts to talk back to Ash, a male character, and calling him out on his mistakes. Most of Ash friends will not say anything and will stay quiet in he background. Iris was one of the very few characters that actually calls him out for his behavior and his stupidity. But that is not a real fan service. Most fans of shonen animes do not want to see such a character that offers almost non fan service.

    And this is the sad truth about characters like Iris. Most of her hate and dislike comes not because of her personality and her role in the series. No. It really is just because for a girl character, a main girl character btw, she offers not much fan service. Which is sadly the driving force for the popularity for almost any character, especially female ones. Look at Minerva Mink form Animaniacs. This character barely did anything in this show, barley was used, wasn't even funny or had any sign of an interesting personality, but she is way more beloved than other more used characters of the show like Slappy, Chicken Boo or the Goodfeathers. Same I can say of all the female characters from One Piece. Most of their fans really only enjoy those characters because of their bodies.

    It's really sad that only fan service matters for female and sometimes even male characters. Even Masamitsu Hidaka, one of the storyboard artist of the show confirmed in one interview, that the main reason for the inclusion of a girl to the main cast if mostly because of the eye candy bonus. The more fan service a Pokémon girl offers the merrier the fans adore her in the end. And Serena had the most of any of them, and Iris had the least out of all of them.

    That is at least my view when it comes to the hate of Iris. And in my opinion she really doesn't deserve this. Because Iris along with Jessie are the only main female characters in this series that actually are very different to the others. Sure May is not exactly like Dawn, and Dawn is not exactly like Serena, and Serena is not exactly like Lillie and Lillie is not the same as Mallow. But in the end all of them are nice, sweet, cute, down to earth girls who do girly stuff and have a girly personality. Which is a shame, because I think this anime really can use some more unique girl characters.
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  4. MidnightMelody

    MidnightMelody Hopeful for Gen 8

    The kid insult seemed overused and just used at really odd times. Also hated how Dawn became the second Iris pout of nowhere. It really did mess her personality up. I mean yes sometimes Ash did things in BW that made me wonder why but at times he would be just doing nothing wrong and she would call him a kid. At least with misty he was a legit novice and he did stupid things. Not to mention he was a bit of a dick in the Kanto era so it worked. In BW while they tired to make him a noob again he quickly went back to being a skilled trainer by like what episode 20 or so? TBH I dislike Iris as much as Serena but different reasons for the latter.
  5. satopi

    satopi Go’s Scyther is indestriketible! <3

    How did Dawn become the second Iris? Just because she got along with her and said "such a kid" to Ash? Did you not enjoy her messing around with Ash in the beginning or is that another Iris manipulation essence plowing inside her before they even met? Dawn never changed from the girl she's always been.
  6. Xeogran

    Xeogran Hajimemashite.

    Iris is cute appearance wise, and I'm glad she didn't go the cutesy contest route. After two girls in a row, it was good to take a break from that. Her personality was enjoyable too, and I could care less about whatever the "fandom" thinks.
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  7. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Explorer

    Ignore this "fandom". The majority of these people hate Iris because she called Ash a kid(which he actually is) while they love Serena to death only because of her crush on Ash and not for her actual character.
  8. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    I fully support the fandom because Iris is a hypocrite. She herself is more of a kid than Ash and still dares to call Ash a kid.
  9. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ ^Me whenever I visit the PAD

    Yeah. Years from now I highly doubt that anyone would even remember what Serena actually did as a character besides crushing on Ash and having a poorly written goal. I doubt they would remember the episode where she races against her mom and the episode where she met Aria in disguise, which were probably some of her best development episodes in the series imo. The same can be said about Iris and being remembered for her you're such a kid catchphrase instead of what she did as a character and how she developed. It's such a shame really :/
  10. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Explorer

    Never had a friend who was calling you a kid or anything similar when you were on elementary school just to tease you? Bickering and teasing between friends is a common thing and I really prefer Ash to have a friendship like this rather than having someone who idolizes him to death and cannot even accept the fact that her "prince on a white horse" has a flawed side like every other human being.

    Serena's rebellious personality should have been shown more imho. It was evident that her character was more than the sweet loving and supporting girl who stays on the sidelines all the time. She had some good development episodes as a bulid up but they didn't take advantage of this and didn't really bother to show more about her character. Also, her goal didn't help that much either.
  11. Spyro39

    Spyro39 Well-Known Member

    Yes, Iris can come off as a hypocrite when she calls Ash a kid, but that doesn't mean she got away with it. She herself has been called out for her childish antics by other characters. Besides, Ash is a kid and acted like one in BW (and to a greater extent, SM). He deserved to be called one.

    Even so, Ash was mature enough to brush off most of Iris' teasing, unlike her haters and this "fandom". Seriously, what do they want (no, expect) from a girl who travels with Ash to treat him?
  12. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Nah, I would never have a hypocrite as my friend. Iris teased Ash because of the same flaw she herself has more. There is nothing wrong in loving someone and idiolizing him, that's nothing to be ashamed of, that's appreciable, but hypocrisy is condemnable. Idiolizing and loving someone>>>>>being a hypocrite.

    @spyro39- True, but but someone who is herself a kid doesn't deserve to call others a kid. It's not that every Pokegirl has to ideolize Ash- look at May and Dawn, such well written Pokegirls. I personally like Serena very much for her crush and admiration for Ash, but that's something subjective.
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  13. DankOverlord

    DankOverlord Komodo Dragons Rule!

    Iris is a characetr hated fro the wrong reasons.

    Serena is loved for the wrong reasons need I say more
  14. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Oh really. Ideolize and loving someone is so much a wrong thing and condemnable while being a hypocrite is appreciable, right? :rolleyes:
  15. DankOverlord

    DankOverlord Komodo Dragons Rule!

    Iris was called out on her attitude and she was always presented in the wrong, I think you'reconfusing teasing with statements, Iris called Ash a kid to get on his nveres because that's what kids do to each other, especialy a girl to a boy he likes.

    Serena's fantasies were nto all to her character but that's the only reason she is used in 99% of fanfics and whta people first talk about her.

    But seeing as you won't listen to other
    's statements and prefer to repeat" hypocrite"I won't even try to drag that argument too long

    And one bad thign doesn't excuses the other BTW, so yeah keep trying to justify the fandom's attitude (which is the only hypocritical attitude here)
  16. Rettan-Smogon

    Rettan-Smogon Banned

    That right their is actually Serena's biggest issue I have with her. If it wasn't for her crush on Ash, she would be probably the most forgettable main character of the entire series. Okay, maybe second most forgettable. Mallow is sadly the first in that position. Serena also doesn't have any real likes or dislikes as a character. She also barely interacted with many characters besides Ash, Bonnie, her Mom and Shauna. And two of them only showed up in a couple of episodes.
    But right their shows me how much an influence fan service can have on a character. You can be bland, forgettable, boring and maybe sometimes even unlikable, but if you have this one thing, that can be used as a gimmick to attracted people you are automatically their favorite character of all time.
  17. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Explorer

    Yeah no. Having someone to tease and bicker with you doesn't make him/her an hypocrite. It strengthens a good friendship instead and you get to know the other person better.

    What did Serena know about Ash? He showed once his flawed side and couldn't acknowledge it saying that this isn't the Ash SHE knows. That means that she has her own image about who Ash is. The image of a Gary Stu character. If you cannot accept that people have flaws then a relationship like this is too fragile because you cannot acknowledge their negative sides. And coming from personal experience I wouldn't want a person like Serena to be in love with me if she cannot love me for who I truly am with my positive and negative sides as a person.
  18. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Royal Guard Knight

    Oh really? So I have a flaw personally and would constantly point out the same flaw in another one's character, and that doesn't made me a hypocrite? Good. :rolleyes:

    Serena always believed in Ash no matter what. That was a clear sign of how much she cared for Ash as a person and as a friend, so her love for Ash is unadulterated. Sure, after seeing Ash's flawed side, she became upset, as she had never seen Ash's flawed side before. But later on, did she realised her fault and went to look for Ash? Yes. Did she shed tears for it? Yes. So no, that's just a momentarily lapse, nothing else. I personally would have someone like Serena as my lover, who always believes in me and cares for me no matter what, that what I'd call unadulterated love.
  19. DankOverlord

    DankOverlord Komodo Dragons Rule!

    Your Logic in short:

    -Idiolizes to an unrealistic extent someone and can't accept any flaws on that person: True Love, best girl ever

  20. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 Explorer

    How is calling a 10-year old a kid considered a personality flaw? :rolleyes:

    You pretty much described every other Pokegirl we have seen in the series when it comes to friendship. Good job. :)
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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