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Round two..

B

Blue Harvest

Banned
TEAM

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@ Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 HP / 28 Defense / 228 Speed

Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stealth Rock
Waterfall

While I was never really weak to Lucario, Salamence (mixmence) and Infernape, throwing a scarf on Swampert allows him to stop the afore mentioned threats. Fun set. The fastest thing on my team is a Swampert, how sad. Outruns the base 110's to help against Gengar and give me some protection against Latias.



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@ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 252 Special Defense / 4 Defense

Lava Plume
Earth Power
Rest
Sleep Talk

Celebi, Rotom, Zapdos and many other things fall to Rest/Talk Heatran. Durable enough to stall out even weaker Surfs (Tentacruel) and sponge a Focus Blast or two while STILL standing up to offensive Zapdos and the strongest Draco Meteors in the game with ease. Lava Plume keeps it from being complete setup bait for Salamence and Gyarados.



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@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 176 Defense / 80 Special Defense

Ice Beam
HP Fighting
Thunder Wave
Moonlight

This is HarvestCress. Remember Rhy's fabled "Newcress"? This bends NewCress over and ****s it from behind, all while making her children watch. HarvestCress has 100% superior durability to Rhy's Cresselia and thus is one of the best answers to mixmence in the game. Most of the set is self explanitory, but HP Fighting is the key to what makes this great. Suddenly Magnezone, Empoleon, Weavile and even an unlucky Tyranitar can't wall me. Lucario can sometimes be beaten and Subtran can't put a sub up against me (unless its bulky). HP Fighting has great coverage with Ice Beam. Ice Beam OHKOs Salamence without rocks 90% of the time after Life Orb.



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@ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP / 80 Special Defense / 176 Speed

Substitute
Roost
Discharge
Toxic

A devastating wall of rape. Faster then every non-scarfed base 90 lets me have a lot of insurance against Lucario, Togekiss, Scizor and Breloom. Not to mention this has swept entire teams before. Toxic is one of only two moves on my entire team without 100% accuracy but it lets Zapdos beat Tyranitar switching in on it. Discharge ***gotry is great fun.



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@ Toxic Orb
Jolly
252 Speed / 44 HP / 212 Attack

Spore
Substitute
Leech Seed
Focus Punch

Jolly lets me outrun Adamant Gyarados which is EXTREMELY helpful. Leech Seed makes sure Weezing, Rotom and Zapdos don't wall me. Its a Breloom, everyone hates it..



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@ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Impish
252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense

Brave Bird
Spikes
Roost
Roar / Whirlwind

Before I say anything, Whirlwind is the superior option to hit Baton Pass teams hard. But since I play Wifi, when not running a Shoddy team I like Roar better due to the animation (well, sound). Skarmory has such a cool "cry".. Anyway, this does a similar job to Forretress. However Gengar hurts me even more now. As awesome as Skarmory is, I may replace this for a Metagross to eliminate Latias, Gengar and Gyarados. Skarmory fits the team better and I can work around those three so.. for now Skarmory stays.
 
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Blue Harvest is great said:
TEAM

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dpmfa227.png



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@ Choice Scarf
Jolly
228 HP / 96 Defense / 184 Speed

Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stealth Rock
Waterfall

Give it 184 in speed, as this allows you to outrun 192 Infernape and KO it. (I think)


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@ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 252 Special Defense / 4 Defense

Lava Plume
Earth Power
Rest
Sleep Talk

Might want to go with a bit more offensive? If so: 248 HP / 84 SpA / 176 SpD. With the Evs, you hit a jump point in SDef and have a bit more power. Alternately, you could move those SAtt evs to defense.



dpffa488.png
@ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 176 Defense / 80 Special Defense

Ice Beam
HP Fighting
Thunder Wave
Moonlight

This is HarvestCress. Remember Rhy's fabled "Newcress"? This bends NewCress over and ****s it from behind, all while making her children watch. It does. Best nature would be bold.



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@ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP / 80 Special Defense / 176 Speed

Heat Wave
Roost
Discharge
Toxic

I personally think you should have Heat wave to counter said pokemon.



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@ Toxic Orb
Jolly
252 Speed / 44 HP / 212 Attack

Spore
Substitute
Leech Seed / Seed Bomb
Focus Punch

We do Hate it! Consider Seed Bomb as you can already cripple so many of your counters with Spore. Consider, not change. Leech Seed is helpful too, though.


OMG you used a Skarm youlozer!!!!!111one1!!!1
No, sorry. I'd change it to Mamo as a whole crapload of team nowadays are Mamo Weak.

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@ Choice Band
Adamant
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP

Earthquake
Stone Edge
Ice Shard
Superpower

Mamo FTW!
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Stuff that's better than yours in Bold. (JK)
 
And why doesn't Bold make any sense since its a +Def nature that helps Cress take on Salamence once it has DDed?
 
The real reason for bold was for the jump point it offers
 
Athough I'm guessing that a fair amount of work has been put into the set, and it is calm for a reason.
 
176Spe on Swampy lets you outrun positive nature 192 Spe infernape.
Shed Shell is nessecery on Skarm, magnezone are way too common now, also roar and whirlwind it doesn't matter which you use, you'll probably never see a soundproof poke anyway (and if you do you won't need to roar it).
 
ExplodingMuk said:
To Gren Draco: Actually, i did my calcs and found it only ht 317 I believe, which don't outrun.
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it hit's 330, which is 1 less, my bad.
so run 184 EV's, not 174.
 
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To outrun Infernape I would need to run more speed. Ops, my mistake..

But since I have a real problem with Gengar and Latias (not huge, but they piss me off) I might as well go all the way and EV Swampert to take them on. 228 EVs hits 351 speed, outrunning all non-scarfed Latias and Gengar. Ice Punch will normally 3HKO Latias, but it lets me finish off a crippled one and.. hope for freeze I guess.


As for Cresselia Calm vs Bold..

Calm D - 142080
Calm SD -153068
Total - 295148

Bold D - 156288
Bold SD - 140304
Total - 296592

Bold overall takes hits about one third of a percent better. Thats interesting.. Maybe I'll try Bold. HarvestCress was designed to survive against some of the biggest threats in the metagame, primarily mixmence. Here are some calulations for it..

Code: 
+2 Lucario Crunch = 73.87% - 86.94%
"new" Mixmence Outrage = 38.74% - 45.95% 
"new" Mixmence Draco Meteor = 43.47% - 51.35% 
LO Weavile Night Slash = 47.30% - 55.86% 
CB TTar Crunch = 72.97% - 86.49% 
CB TTar Stone Edge = 45.95% - 54.05% 
+2 Infernape Fire Blast = 66.89% - 79.05% 
CB Metagross Meteor Mash = 45.95% - 54.28% 
+1 LO Salamence Outrage = 71.62% - 84.46% 
Choice Specs Porygon Z Hyper Beam = 84.46% - 99.55% 
Non-Petaya Empoleon Surf (pre-boost) = 23.65% = 27.93% 
Torrent Petaya Empoleon Surf = 52.70% = 62.16% 
Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast = 49.55% - 58.33% 
Choice Scarf Heatran Fire Blast = 33.11% - 39.19%

I'll see if I don't lose any important 3HKOs by going Bold. If not, I might as well change natures.


Bold Cresselia calculations:
Code: 
+2 Lucario Crunch = 66.67% - 78.83% 
"new" Mixmence Outrage = 35.14% - 41.44%  
"new" Mixmence Draco Meteor = 47.52% - 56.08%  
LO Weavile Night Slash = 45.95% - 54.05%  
CB TTar Crunch = 66.67% - 78.83%  
CB TTar Stone Edge = 41.89% - 49.32%   
+2 Infernape Fire Blast = 73.20% - 86.49%  
CB Metagross Meteor Mash = 41.89% - 49.32% 
+1 LO Salamence Outrage = 64.86% - 76.58%  
Choice Specs Porygon Z Hyper Beam = 93.02% - 109.46%  
Non-Petaya Empoleon Surf (pre-boost) = 25.90% - 30.63%
Torrent Petaya Empoleon Surf = 57.66% - 68.24%  
Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast = 54.28% - 64.19%  
Choice Scarf Heatran Fire Blast = 33.11% - 39.19%

Well, I don't really lose anything important. I gain some added defense against DD mence and Lucario. But..

Mixmence Draco Meteor + Outrage + SR + Leftovers total damage (max) vs Calm - 103.55
Mixmence Draco Meteor + Outrage + SR + Leftovers total damage (max) vs Bold - 103.77

Ok, the only important thing and the difference is negligible. Bold it is!

HarvestCress was Calm simply to outdo Rhy's crappy "newcress". If I went Bold he would have just said "my set takes special hits better, so its different not better". But I never checked to see what Bold actually did..
 
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Blue Harvest is great said:
But since I have a real problem with Gengar and Latias (not huge, but they piss me off) I might as well go all the way and EV Swampert to take them on. 228 EVs hits 351 speed, outrunning all non-scarfed Latias and Gengar. Ice Punch will normally 3HKO Latias, but it lets me finish off a crippled one and.. hope for freeze I guess.
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There really is no point in running that much speed just to outrun them both, especially since Gengar's sometimes run Energy ball, in which case you're screwed. Besides, a lot of latias and gengar are scarfed, as they both provide pretty solid checks to DD Sala once scarfed. You can't really do much once you outspeed them anyway so there's no point trying, just EV to outspeed infernape.

Have you thought about using a bulky scizor? possibly over breloom?
bulky scizor would really help with your gengar/latias weakness, since it can U-turn latias and pursuit gengar for the kill, wereas they both fail to KO before it (unless they carry HP fire, but that's just cheating).
 
Gren Draco said:
There really is no point in running that much speed just to outrun them both, especially since Gengar's sometimes run Energy ball, in which case you're screwed. Besides, a lot of latias and gengar are scarfed, as they both provide pretty solid checks to DD Sala once scarfed. You can't really do much once you outspeed them anyway so there's no point trying, just EV to outspeed infernape.

Have you thought about using a bulky scizor? possibly over breloom?
bulky scizor would really help with your gengar/latias weakness, since it can U-turn latias and pursuit gengar for the kill, wereas they both fail to KO before it (unless they carry HP fire, but that's just cheating).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, many Gengars and Latias are using it now. HP: fire is becoming more common.

Scarf Weavile could give them both a check.
 
Gren Draco said:
There really is no point in running that much speed just to outrun them both, especially since Gengar's sometimes run Energy ball, in which case you're screwed.
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VERY few Gengars run Energy Ball, even so Swampert has a very safe switch in. Outrunning Genger isn't to counter him, but to be another way to bring him down.

Besides, a lot of latias and gengar are scarfed, as they both provide pretty solid checks to DD Sala once scarfed.
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Yeah but if they are Scarfed they aren't a threat.

You can't really do much once you outspeed them anyway so there's no point trying, just EV to outspeed infernape.
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Waterfall always 2HKOs Gengar, and always OHKOs after Stealth Rocks with a Torrent boost. Latias takes 42% minumum from Ice Punch, so at the very least it can do some minor damage. Hope for a freeze, I guess.

Have you thought about using a bulky scizor? possibly over breloom?
bulky scizor would really help with your gengar/latias weakness, since it can U-turn latias and pursuit gengar for the kill, wereas they both fail to KO before it (unless they carry HP fire, but that's just cheating).
Click to expand...

I thought about it, and am still thinking about it. But Breloom is my only answer to Suicune, and best offense thanks to all the Thunder Waves giving Breloom more chances to start Subseeding. Maybe I'll run a Rest/Talk Machamp or Specially Defensive Heracross instead..
 
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