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Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Lord of Music, May 22, 2009.

  1. Back, ye. Hope somebody remembers me. :) Anyway, I haven't played in several months, so I needed to play a while in Shoddy. I'm not as sharp, but I'm pretty satisfied with the team. I'll need other opinions though, as I belive it could be more solid. Please, sensible rates only. I didn't wanna sound arrogant, I just need good help. :D

    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 236 HP/216 Def/56 SAtk
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    Ol' Swampy. Gets Heatran and Tyranitar for me, and some other stuff. Pretty standard really, except HP is there to hit Scizor, who I have trouble dealing with sometimes. It hasn't proved very useful so far though, thinking of Hydro Pump.

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 104 HP/136 Atk/80 Def/188 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall
    BulkyGyara, with my old spread. Nothing much to say, really. Does a decent job of handling Scizor and Salamence with considerable bulk and Intimidate. My best offense.

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 204 HP/252 Def/52 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight
    - Charge Beam
    - Thunder Wave
    Lol, haven't used this thing in forever. I had the urge to again, and it's worked very well. Very bulky, and sometimes I even get to K.O. things with the Charge Beam boost. Has beaten quite a few Lucarios, as well as the things it should counter. Thunder Wave is great.

    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 100 HP/252 Atk/156 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    CB Sciz! Lotsa people expect the Swords Dancer, so they send in that stops set-up just to be beaten by a very powerful move. Standard moves, U-Turn scots well and hits hard.

    Drapion (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 252 HP/36 Atk/220 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    Nearly a staple on my teams for a long time now. Beats Gengar all the time, and Latias, Azelf and the Rotoms most of the time. A great answer to special attacks to back up Cress, and outstalls lots of stuff. It has outstalled a Stallrein and a Skarmory, to name two. Crunch gets STAB and can lower defense, which is great. >:) My status taker, as well as TSer. Poisoning/Paralyzing the foe helps a lot.

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 204 HP/184 Atk/56 Def/64 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Punch
    - Explosion
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake
    Yes, messy EVs. I was experimenting with them, and the defenses were split best like this, but if anyone has something better, go ahead. I used to run Porygon2 here, but the things P2 countered such as Heatran, Gyarados and Salamence are taken care of anyway, so I opted for this. Meta gives me a second steel type, meaning resistances. Very bulky, and survives a lot of EQs, surprisingly. Bullet Punch is there even when Sciz runs it, because I love priority and priority is awesome.

    So there. I haven't had a huge problem with any individual pokemon so far, but I had a pretty hard time fighting a rain team, Kingdra Ludicolo Kabutops and all. I beat it on the 3rd try, when I got Gyara set up. But yeah, if you got a suggestion or what, i'm listening.

    I hope somebody from cbc is still here, are they all gone? :|
  2. Xhizors

    Xhizors Banned

    -Swampert is a great lead to use, it can setup Stealth rock, and beat other leads while taking hits. However, I don't think HP [Fire] is necessary for because Scizor leads aren't common at all, I'm not sure how well Swampert can take a 120 Base Power Super power, and finally Gyarados does an excelent job at walling Scizor and can use him as a setup fodder. Gyrarados resists his STAB Bullet punch, STAB U-turn and Superpower. I'd say use Hydro pump for the 2HKO on Skarmory later in the game.

    -On Scizor you could use this spread for a lot of bulk while still hitting as much as you can. 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    The speed EVs, helps you outspeed Vaporeon. The HP EVs are for optimal Leftovers recovery point.

    -I think this is a well built team that counters most of the OU threats except for Zapdos. You really are very weak to him. The only pokemon that resists his STAB Thunderbolt is Swampert wich is taken care off by HP [Grass]. What counters Zapdos? Any form of Blissey, Snorlax, Electivire, Lanturn, Jolteon, Tyranitar with it's huge Sp.Def, and Flygon and Gliscor do a good job at walling him. If you had to replace someone in the team, I think it should be Metagross who doesn't seem to be helping at anything, personnaly I find him useless. Just use one of the counters mentioned above. Sorry, I'm too lazy to give you a set.

    Good luck with the team.
  3. Kingdrom

    Kingdrom Turn Away Again

    It's good to see an older member come back (I only made it to CBC just before it had all the forum transfers).

    Blue Ace is still here. Reno is (as you probably already know) a mod along with Misaki-chi. Steadfast comes on occasionally, Extra is banned; Tochukaso is at Smogon under the username Stellar. Raito and Unaware are nowhere to be seen. Things have been bogged down lately. Anyway:

    On Swampert, Hidden Power Fire would be reserved for only Scizor and Forretress. The issue here is that with minimal HP investment, Scizor is able to survive Hp Fire all the time even after Stealth Rock. On Forretress, HP Fire is also a 2HKO. In addition to gaining an attack with greater general utility, using Hydro Pump on Swampert would 2HKO even max HP Scizor most of the time with Stealth Rock down. This gives little justification for using Hidden Power Fire from such a low attack stat. In addition, Hydro Pump hits Skarmory + Bronzong significantly harder than Hp Fire. Gyarados is more than sufficient as a counter to Scizor.

    I'm sure that your Gyarados spread is well thought out, but I'm not sure if it is still relevant. It doesn't appear to be defensive enough to survive a +0 LO Outrage from DD Salamence. I would suggest running this:

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Nature: Impish
    Ev's: 216 Hp / 64 Atk / 184 Def / 44 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Taunt / Earthquake
    -Stone Edge

    Due to Intimidate, Gyarados is able to fully counter DD LO Salamence, assuming that you have set up Stealth Rock; the set also takes Stealth Rock damage into account. It survives a +0 Life Orb Outrage from Salamence. In addition, it survives a +2 (Hyper Cutter) Gliscor Stone Edge. Meanwhile, Gyarados's own Stone Edge does a guaranteed minimum of 65%, an OHKO after Life Orb and Stealth Rock. The moveset is more or less up to you; you may still find merit in Taunt Gyarados due to its ability to deal with Sub/Toxic Heatran, but Earthquake is still viable due to allowing it to check Lucario effectively.

    The Ev numbers also reach convenient points, if this is still of concern to you. 216 Hp Ev's yields 385 Hp, one point above maximum leftovers recovery to allow 4 switch-ins to Stealth Rock if necessary. The defense investment reaches a bonus point with the boosting nature. The 44 Spe Ev's give a speed stat of 209, outspeeding no speed Rotom and Suicune (unimportant, but potentially useful). At +1 Speed it beats Jolly Lucario and Jolly Gliscor, and an additional Dragon Dance on top of this will put Gyarados ahead of all Scarf Heatrans. The rest of the Ev's are dumped in Attack, which ensures the OHKO on Salamence with Stone Edge as well as allowing Gyarados to 2HKO max HP (Leftovers) Heatran without Stealth Rock if the need arises.

    Cresselia doesn't work as well in the current metagame as it used to. The unreliable recovery in Moonlight (Sandstorm teams and even Rain Dance teams can be seen throughout the metagame) and STABless attacks off of a low special attack stat makes it set-up fodder for several Pokemon, including Scizor, Tyranitar, Sub Heatran, and even CM Suicune to some extent (unboosted Charge Beam does a measly 15%). Since Suicune will be CM'ing, your only chance is to hope for a lucky critical hit, which requires +5 to become an OHKO. It seems that the ability to counter Infernape is the only prerequisite for this slot on the team. Lucario can be taken care of by Gyarados assuming that it doesn't have Stone Edge; Salamence is easily revenge killed.

    Keeping this in mind, Wish Latias is a fitting replacement. It also has great speed to play around with. I don't have a good spread for Latias currently, but I was able to come up with this quickly:

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    Ev's: 204 HP / 112 Def / 12 SAtk / 180 Spe
    -Draco Meteor

    Latias is an effective counter to all types of Infernape, even able to withstand a +2 Stone Edge from SD Infernape. The Hp yields a leftovers number, while a reasonable amount is placed in defense to allow Latias to switch out of CB Scizor and take the potential Pursuit without dying, preserving the Wish. The speed reaches 331, enough to outspeed Mixape, and the rest goes in special attack. Draco Meteor makes more of a dent in the opposing Pokemon, but Dragon Pulse is a completely viable alternative. Surf is for Infernape, but can be replaced by Thunderbolt or Grass Knot if these slightly worse options somehow find themselves useful.

    Using Scizor with low HP investment makes it easy for DD Kingdra to 2HKO with Outrage. This, combined with the fact that investing in Hp doesn't really reduce special defensiveness by any significant degree, makes a spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe the superior one. The speed Ev's are to outspeed Vaporeon, but the new standard runs 68 Spe Ev's, so they may be placed in special defense instead.

    You may also want to replace Drapion with something that can deal with water types, considering that you had issues with a Rain Dance team. Either Roserade or Jolteon will do in this position- Roserade can set up Toxic Spikes and takes hits from Suicune very well, while Jolteon is frailer but faster, providing an immunity to the common Thunderbolt (and pairing well with Gyarados). Specs Jolteon works fine considering that you (will) have Wish support to lessen the effects of switch-ins and Stealth Rock damage accumulated from BP scouting. Jolteon is what I would recommend due to acting as a secondary check against Adamant Gyarados (but doesn't stop Jolly Gyara) and a solid switch-in to Zapdos, as the above poster mentioned.

    I have some thoughts on how to change Metagross but I am currently under a time constraint. I'll edit or repost tomorrow.
  4. Blue Ace

    Blue Ace Pokemon is Dead


    I heard he goes by David now?

    Welcome Back LOM, it's nice to see by these parts again, Kingdrom covered everything as far as the team goes.
  5. calze6

    calze6 Reclaiming da ladder

    Your team looks fine to me. It might be interesting to try bounce gyara as I used it and I PWNed.
  6. @ Kingdrom: thanks loads, i really needed that.
    @ Blue Ace: good to see you mate.
    @ calze6: Thanks. And, no thanks.

    Will update this later today. More rates gogogo.
  7. calum

    calum Banned

    Nice Team.

    Although ATM all I see is outside of Cress you fail to beat Skarm, who can also Whirlwind Charge Beam boosts aswell. Obviously 1on1 Gyara would win, but if you had another Pokemon left he wouldnt. Also Bliss can wall Cress and beat with Toxic so in general you are very SkarmBliss weak. This team is very bulky so I believe you could run something frail, and I believe Meta looks like the Weakest Link to me.

    So somewhat of a Wallbreaker could go over him possibly Infernape who doesnt mess with you weaknesses too much. Overall good team, but very bulky and I agree with Kingdrom, Cress really doesnt cut it these days. But now that you have Latias a Dragon resist would be even more welcome, so possibly Bulky Magnezone, who traps Skarm and then can or not explode on Bliss.

    I dont think youll want him but if you do I can provide the spread.

    Hope I somewhat helped
  8. Read all suggestions.
    Replacing Cress: texted Latias among a few other things, didn't really like it. Vaporeon might work.
    Thinking of Gliscor>Swampert, but I've mixed feelings on this.
  9. JRCxyz

    JRCxyz Hi

    First, Scizor is holding Choice Band, not Leftovers. 248 Hp doesn't reach an optimal Leftovers recovery point, anyways.
  10. Addie

    Addie (•✖•)

    Just posting to say that you should certainly at least try using Bounce, instead of just shrugging it off. Bounce is actually quite useful, unlike using Fly on other Pokemon. It gets great coverage, has a 30% paralysis chance, and handles prime Gyarados counters like Celebi. As long as you don't suck and try it on stuff like Vaporeon, it's great.
  11. Zenotwapal

    Zenotwapal have a drink on me

    I would think swamperts better than gliscor, since gliscor has X4 ice weakness.

    and many people carry ice beam on pokemon.
  12. Tochukaso

    Tochukaso Me>U >_>

    get out o here[/COLOR]
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  13. Tochukaso

    Tochukaso Me>U >_>

    [c]get out o here[/COLOR]
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  14. Tochukaso

    Tochukaso Me>U >_>

    [coler.]get out o here[/COLOR]

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