BWS2-23: Ash Vs Kotetsu! Secret Weapon Hydreigon!! [FIRST POST]

[ludiloco]

The complain is about the double standard of the fandom (¬_¬), everybody praises a Gible with almost zero battle experience beating a Shuckle AND a Dusknoir and have no problem with Ash deciding to use it against a trainer that HE KNOWS had a Darkrai, but, on the other hands, they despises the idea of an Oshawott with 3 gym battles being used ONCE against a Hydreigon that is not even legendary.

I get it, and the only reason is that many fans were expecting Oshawott to evolve because he was getting a good development when he learned to control aqua jet, but now that merchandising manipulates the anime to keep the otter unevolved and face an hydreigon (who was portrayed as a very powerful fully-evolved pokemon since its debut) is getting into some people's nerves. There was no problem with Gible since no one expected him to evolve soon, his main goal was dominate draco meteor, and TheFonz is right when he says Gible didn't have as much time as Oshawott to experience gym battles; as I said before, Gible should've got this gym match agaist Volkner instead of Pikachu, but the rat is mandatory.

As for their movesets ... they´re almost the same:
- Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the strongest (or almost strongest) of their types
- Tackle and Rock Smash are both crappy moves
- Razor Shell and Dragon Pulse are the same redundant attacks that turns out to be signature moves.
- Dig and Aqua Jet are the only differences.

I'm not talking about th move's power but the type variety:

Gible has dig and dragon pulse, 2 different types that get stab, has draco meteor, a very powerful move that also gets stab, and rock smash that's not shown as weak as it should be because of the games (in fact, in the anime is a good move), and gives him coverage against ice-types.

Oshawott on the other hand has 3 water-type moves, ok they get stab but since oshawott is a single typed pokemon getting 3 moves of the same type will give the otter serious problems against pokemon like Jellicent or Ludicolo, since he doesn't have a coverage move for them; and tackle, really?.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

The complain is about the double standard of the fandom (¬_¬), everybody praises a Gible with almost zero battle experience beating a Shuckle AND a Dusknoir and have no problem with Ash deciding to use it against a trainer that HE KNOWS had a Darkrai, but, on the other hands, they despises the idea of an Oshawott with 3 gym battles being used ONCE against a Hydreigon that is not even legendary.

Right... Who other then you is comparing Gible to Oshawott? For starters, Dragon's are normally portrayed as power (minus Iris's Axew) while Waters types are the most common type of Pokemon seen in the anime. Next you have Oshawott, who regressed from be a battler and Pokemon trained by Ash, to a Comic Relief character with Piplup tendencies. And since when did Gym battles all of a sudden become the end all be all of how worthy you are in battle... going by that Snivy, Scraggy, and yes, even Oshwott shouldn't even be used in the league (Oshawott being the lucky one with two wins) Heck, even Krookodile shouldn't have been used since it only got one gym win as well.

I'm fine with you hating Sinnoh, but don't bring you biasness towards Unova to try and make sense of a crappy league battle.

As for their movesets ... they´re almost the same:
- Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor are the strongest (or almost strongest) of their types

This is the only thing the same about them... Both know the strongest move possible to them

- Tackle and Rock Smash are both crappy moves

When was Rock Smash in the anime crappy again?

- Razor Shell and Dragon Pulse are the same redundant attacks that turns out to be signature moves.

How was Dragon Pulse it's signature attack? Ash only commanded it to use it once.

- Dig and Aqua Jet are the only differences.

Both are used for mobility, but this wasn't their only difference

 

[Squirtle_007]

Right... Who other then you is comparing Gible to Oshawott? For starters, Dragon's are normally portrayed as power (minus Iris's Axew) while Waters types are the most common type of Pokemon seen in the anime. Next you have Oshawott, who regressed from be a battler and Pokemon trained by Ash, to a Comic Relief character with Piplup tendencies. And since when did Gym battles all of a sudden become the end all be all of how worthy you are in battle... going by that Snivy, Scraggy, and yes, even Oshwott shouldn't even be used in the league (Oshawott being the lucky one with two wins) Heck, even Krookodile shouldn't have been used since it only got one gym win as well.

I'm fine with you hating Sinnoh, but don't bring you biasness towards Unova to try and make sense of a crappy league battle.

Sure, a battle that you haven´t seen yet is crappy just because a comic scan says so

Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?

So, why is OK having an underdeveloped-comic-relief Gible almost sweeping Conway AND facing Darkrai but is a crime having a 3-gym-Oshawott in ONE battle against a Hydreigon that Ash didn´t even know Kotetsu had?

 

[WaterShuriken]

But that's the animation even in the games.

Only in Gen I and III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq94FV37zpc

 

[Umbilical Noose]

Both are used for mobility, but this wasn't their only difference

I was about to say the say thing but you ninja'd me before I can even type.

Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?

Would you please stop calling it Overrated league. Nobody overrate it, everyone knows we have seen better.

On Topic: vs Hydreigon is a team effort. When will writers stop this? Why can't Ash just beat a Pseudo Legendary with just one or two Pokemon? The closest thing is Iris's Dragonite but I don't know if that even counts.

 

[TheFonz]

Sure, a battle that you haven´t seen yet is crappy just because a comic scan says so

Because the whole Biting-Ash´s-head-eating-metal-and-Draco-Meteoring-Piplup was not comic relief at all, right ?
Is not only gym battles what makes a Pokémon worthy in battle but, seriously, how many battles (not even Gym battles, BATTLES in general) did Gible had BEFORE the Overrated League?, and how many of them actually won?

So, why is OK having an underdeveloped-comic-relief Gible almost sweeping Conway AND facing Darkrai but is a crime having a 3-gym-Oshawott in ONE battle against a Hydreigon that Ash didn´t even know Kotetsu had?

How can Oshawott VS Hydreigon be a good battle? Maybe if it learns Ice Beam, but then it could most likely get blocked and 1HKOd by one Tri Attack.

We didn't say Gible wasn't a comic relief. We meant he was a good balance. Oshawott has no balance anymore, he's a joke. Not at the start, but his development went nowhere. How isn't Oshawott as "underdeveloped" as Gible as you say? A least we saw Ash train with Gible more and it's training pulled off more in the long run

And we get it, you hate Sinnoh. But we're not being biased.

 

[LizardonX]

I think the sheer absurdity of a samurott hitting on meloetta and competing with a piplup would make things so much funnier than if wotter does it.

 

[TheFonz]

I think the sheer absurdity of a samurott hitting on meloetta and competing with a piplup would make things so much funnier than if wotter does it.

Samurott is supposed to be mature and Oshawott is supposed to be immature. It's in their specie's nature, like Oshawott is a lil samurai guy growing up as it evolves. That's why Japan only likes Oshawott

 

[LizardonX]

Samurott is supposed to be mature and Oshawott is supposed to be immature. It's in their specie's nature, like Oshawott is a lil samurai guy growing up as it evolves. That's why Japan only likes Oshawott

They don't have to be all the same. I mean Dragonites are supposed to be all happy and derpy and stuff but look at iris's

 

[TheFonz]

They don't have to be all the same. I mean Dragonites are supposed to be all happy and derpy and stuff but look at iris's

From bulbapedia:
"Dragonite have a kindhearted disposition and are said to have human-like intelligence. They have been said to save people from drowning and lead ships that have been trapped in storms to safety. If angered, however, they are capable of going on uncontrollable rampages with devastating results."

Iris's falls under it, hers just has more personality, is a little more agressive and competitive

 

[LizardonX]

From bulbapedia:
"Dragonite have a kindhearted disposition and are said to have human-like intelligence. They have been said to save people from drowning and lead ships that have been trapped in storms to safety. If angered, however, they are capable of going on uncontrollable rampages with devastating results."

Iris's falls under it, hers just has more personality, is a little more agressive and competitive

The last thing that Dragonite has is a kindhearted disposition.

 

[TheFonz]

The last thing that Dragonite has is a kindhearted disposition.

It's more of an underlying kindheart but with a tough exterior. Like how he protected the Pidove and took a liking to Iris

 

[Squirtle_007]

How can Oshawott VS Hydreigon be a good battle? Maybe if it learns Ice Beam, but then it could most likely get blocked and 1HKOd by one Tri Attack.

We didn't say Gible wasn't a comic relief. We meant he was a good balance. Oshawott has no balance anymore, he's a joke. Not at the start, but his development went nowhere. How isn't Oshawott as "underdeveloped" as Gible as you say? A least we saw Ash train with Gible more and it's training pulled off more in the long run

And we get it, you hate Sinnoh. But we're not being biased.

And Gible sweeping Shuckle AND Dusknoir was a good battle?

I would prefer a Swords Dance - X-Scissor/Fury Cutter combo over Ice Beam, it would look cooler :3

Oshawott had more development than Gible because it had more gym battles and more victories, apart from that, Ash trained Oshawott to master Aqua Jet AND to not rely on its scalchop.

On its run before the ... League, Gible only trained its Draco Meteor and, suddenly, it became a mini powerhouse and nobody objects to the fact it faced a Darkrai with almost zero development (¬_¬), how Oshawott being a comic relief now nullifies its previous achievements?

Before their respective leagues:
OSHAWOTT: 3 gym battles and a bunch of losses against fire-types
GIBLE: 0 gym and a loss against Barry

 

[Joltik-Kid]

And Gible sweeping Shuckle AND Dusknoir was a good battle?

I would prefer a Swords Dance - X-Scissor/Fury Cutter combo over Ice Beam, it would look cooler :3

Oshawott had more development than Gible because it had more gym battles and more victories, apart from that, Ash trained Oshawott to master Aqua Jet AND to not rely on its scalchop.

On its run before the ... League, Gible only trained its Draco Meteor and, suddenly, it became a mini powerhouse and nobody objects to the fact it faced a Darkrai with almost zero development (¬_¬), how Oshawott being a comic relief now nullifies its previous achievements?

Before their respective leagues:
OSHAWOTT: 3 gym battles and a bunch of losses against fire-types
GIBLE: 0 gym and a loss against Barry

What are we suppose to do... all share you hate of Sinnoh? No, Gible is the past and Oshawott is the future. If they can somehow fail at the same thing twice, then the writing isn't progressing at all, it's become stagnant. Again, Gible is acceptable because of it's typing and the Draco Meteor comic relief training it did before hand. And of those three gym battles Oshawott took part in, it only got two wins. Of coarse, then win against Cilan was crap because Oshawott won with a single Razor Shell after taking Bullet Seeds and Bites. And for supposedly learning to not rely on it Scalchop, that was the whole reason it lost to Clay's Palpitoad in the first place. As I said, Gyms are not the end all be all of telling us how worthy you are for the League.

 

[Pepsi_Plunge]

What are we suppose to do... all share you hate of Sinnoh? No, Gible is the past and Oshawott is the future. If they can somehow fail at the same thing twice, then the writing isn't progressing at all, it's become stagnant. Again, Gible is acceptable because of it's typing and the Draco Meteor comic relief training it did before hand. And of those three gym battles Oshawott took part in, it only got two wins. Of coarse, then win against Cilan was crap because Oshawott won with a single Razor Shell after taking Bullet Seeds and Bites. And for supposedly learning to not rely on it Scalchop, that was the whole reason it lost to Clay's Palpitoad in the first place. As I said, Gyms are not the end all be all of telling us how worthy you are for the League.

I don't see how Gible deserves more then Oshawott I really don't there is no argument to prove it and no the typing isn't one, they didnt make a big deal of him being a dragon type.

While he has become a joke(as was Gible) we know even though he didn't take the path they wanted for him at first, that like all the other pokemon Oshawott is also stronger and able to beat strong pokemon rigth now.

He doesn't have to necessarily learn to not rely on his scalchop, its part of his body not Krokoodile Sunglasses.

Still Oshawott will most likelly lose looking at it.

I think Hydreigon beats him and Boldore and Lucario beats Snivy and Unfezant, I just wonder if Unfezant gets a win, since as far as I'm concerned it seems like Oshawott, Boldore and Snivy won't, yes I'm ignoring the fact that they can be recalled.

So what are we looking at rigth now

Satoshi

Pikachu: Samurott and Swanna
Pignite: Hydreigon possibly Ferrothorn
Unfezant: migth get the 6th pokemon

Kotetsu

Hydreigon: Boldore, Oshawott
6th pokemon: Pignite
Lucario: Snivy, Unfezant, Pikachu

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.

 

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.

I think theyre both great, I think Gible gag became terrible after being spammed and I hated the fact they got rid of Gliscor for it.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I think theyre both great, I think Gible gag became terrible after being spammed and I hated the fact they got rid of Gliscor for it.

Lol that gag was the only decent part about Gible.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Ugh how about we just agree that Mijumaru and Gible are both terrible lol.

I like both of them... I just don't know why were comparing them?

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I like both of them... I just don't know why were comparing them?

Cuz we are all bored as hell and want this pointless league to be done with lol.