Connections Between The Different Iterations Of Ash

[DatsRight]

Also remember Pikachu depowering completely when separated from Ash in the Snowbelle arc, unable to even hurt TR until they reconciled.

Anime as a whole tends to place a lot of power into emotions and "the power of really really wanting it", evolutions and power boosts are more often than not completely decided by that (even if Ash usually gets the odd exception per series where he actually trains a Pokemon for it).

 

[satopi]

I’m not even going to get into everything wrong with assuming that Tapu Koko was so strong that it could no-sell a Z-move from such an E4 Ace caliber Pokémon not mention the utter BS that is Mimkyu actually keeping up with a Pokémon on that lvl (I’m sorry but “getting angry” doesn’t automatically make you E4 Tier).

Mimikyu doesn't get stronger because it was getting angry. It gets stronger because of it's intense hatred of Pikachu.

 

[UltimateNinja]

Everything after DP feels like a new character with loose connections to OS-DP Ash.

Well I can say DP Ash->XY Ash for his competency, but it's still doesn't feel right.

 

[mehmeh1]

*Sigh*.... if you paid attention you’d know that there are an astronomically large number of mirror verses a.k.a parallel universes. My conjecture is that the witnessed BW occurred in 1 of those parallel verses due to its incompatibility with the rest of the series.



“Plot armor” means nothing in-universe. What I’d like is good writing that keeps the battles interesting without blatantly contradicting Pikachu’s previously established feats. It’s Pikachu’s inconsistencies are nothing short of horrendous writing; please don’t insult my intelligence by telling me otherwise. Yeah KL finals Pikachu is (upper end) E4 Ace Tier via scaling from Alain’s Base Charizard.... I’m not even going to get into everything wrong with assuming that Tapu Koko was so strong that it could no-sell a Z-move from such an E4 Ace caliber Pokémon not mention the utter BS that is Mimkyu actually keeping up with a Pokémon on that lvl (I’m sorry but “getting angry” doesn’t automatically make you E4 Tier). We know that in general Tapus ~ UBs and we also know that Silvally scales to UBs and...... yeah I’m really not going to get into all the problematic consequences from assuming the Pikachu who fired fired GVH is on the lvl of monsters like Alain’s Base Zard, Flint’s Infernape and Caitlin’s Gothitelle.

we really don't know how anime silvally scales up to UBs, the only confrontation it's had was him getting wrecked by nihilego because he used a flying type move on it

 

[Power Up]

OS>AG>DP>XY

BW and SM are way too different from those 4 so ye.

 

[Genaller]

Mimikyu doesn't get stronger because it was getting angry. It gets stronger because of it's intense hatred of Pikachu.

That’s what I meant. “Intense hatred towards” = “Angry At ” unless you want to play semantics and say I never specifically mentioned Pikachu eventhough it should be obvious that I meant Pikachu since Mimikyu doesn’t get angry about anything else.

we really don't know how anime silvally scales up to UBs, the only confrontation it's had was him getting wrecked by nihilego because he used a flying type move on it

Silvally was literally made for the purpose of slaying UBs; I highly doubt a Pokémon made for the purpose of defeating a certain group of Pokémon is actually fodder relative to that group. When did Silvally get “wreckt”? I recall Silvally making Nihilego retreat.

 

[satopi]

That’s what I meant. “Intense hatred towards” = “Angry At ” unless you want to play semantics and say I never specifically mentioned Pikachu eventhough it should be obvious that I meant Pikachu since Mimikyu doesn’t get angry about anything else.

And strength in intense love towards someone is any better... or different? Intense feelings of hatred is just the opposite of love. What does Mimikyu have against Ash's Pikachu for it to be angry at it? Nothing. Anger is an emotion that can easily go away. Mimikyu just doesn't like Pikachu, not angry at it. It despises it's appearance and ever living being rather than being provoked to anger at it for something it did in the past. Hatred is something that is hard to let go, a grudge that blinds your way of thinking just as loving someone can. They're 2 sides of the same coin.

 

[Genaller]

Everything after DP feels like a new character with loose connections to OS-DP Ash.

Well I can say DP Ash->XY Ash for his competency, but it's still doesn't feel right.

I’m really curious; what would your rebuttal to the claim “XY Ash is the true successor to DP Ash from both a character and trainer skill standpoint” be?

 

[mehmeh1]

That’s what I meant. “Intense hatred towards” = “Angry At ” unless you want to play semantics and say I never specifically mentioned Pikachu eventhough it should be obvious that I meant Pikachu since Mimikyu doesn’t get angry about anything else.

Silvally was literally made for the purpose of slaying UBs; I highly doubt a Pokémon made for the purpose of defeating a certain group of Pokémon is actually fodder relative to that group. When did Silvally get “wreckt”? I recall Silvally making Nihilego retreat.

I'll admit it, I forgot the initial confrontation in the flashback, but in the present, he used one air slash to attack the nihilego doubles, did no visible/audible damage, and was then effortlessly thrown away with a single..err....tentacle slap?

 

[345ash-greninja]

I'll admit it, I forgot the initial confrontation in the flashback, but in the present, he used one air slash to attack the nihilego doubles, did no visible/audible damage, and was then effortlessly thrown away with a single..err....tentacle slap?

Venoshock, not tentacle slap LOL. It still wasn't knocked out though, and if Silvally transformed into the Steel type it wouldn't have been a problem I bet.

 

[U.N. Owen]

I'm saying all of them are one character with the Doylist reason being that Ash's character was made with so little substance as to mold him for what the marketing/writing team wants. As for my personal reasons, I've fought enough Star Wars fans enough. First, it was defending the canonicity of the prequels and now The Last Jedi.

 

[Krackochu]

Really of course Ash is still Ash just because he changes overtime doesn't mean anything

 

[Redstar45]

To me Satoshi is still around in Masara Town at end of xy and go on to be a Kantou champion masters know as Red and have adventures in his age 11-20 that similar to the one in the Pokemon special manga (RGBY -GSC -
Emerald -FRLG-ORAS)
I was like joke by away !

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

I can understand if they wanna treat BW ash as different due to retcons in his battling ability but the truth is every Ash is same and canon except for movie Ash.
And the only reason people do not see SM ash as the same is definitely due to his design change lol. He is competent, his battling abilities are good and he defeated 2 legendaries and every trainer in Alola. So yeah..

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

I’m not denying continuity but I definitely see a disconnect in certain sagas.

I view it like this: OS - AG - DP; BW; XY; SM - PM19

 

[SerenaRulez]

Aren't all the Ash's the same character with just a few differences? I never thought that Kanto Ash was that different from say Hoenn Ash or Sinnoh Ash.

 

[Kazuniya]

How do you interpret Ash?

A vessel used for the promotion and marketing of Pokemon games and toys.

---

More serious answer though: they're all the same character simply written inconsistently either intentionally or unintentionally. There's no reason to interpret them as separate characters when there's a far easier, less convoluted explanation.

 

[Leonhart]

I've seen a lot of theories about BW Satoshi not being canon because of his "reset", but I still consider Satoshi from that era to be the same one that we have now. I just think that the writers were trying to balance him out when he went to Isshu so that the fresh start vibe that Gen V had overall would be more justified in the anime.

 

[TheCrazyMaster]

*(WARNING: POTENTIAL RANTING)*
I'm gonna go with the usual OS->DP feels like a more complete character answer, and that BW, XY, SM and PK19 Ash feel like separate characters. We all know why Unova Ash feels like a completely different character (although he did *occasionally* flash around that familiar strategic side), and there wasn't really a gradual transition of intelligence for Ash once the transition from BW to XY was made. He was just automatically smarter upon arrival in Kalos (and grew hair tuffs over the course of a single flight). It's also apparent that Ash is way more mature as an individual, and while this isn't a bad thing, the lack of transition and developement to this new personality aspect is a little disapointing. Had Ash had his initial compitence AND started maturing throughout BW, I would be more willing to accept these to as counterparts to each other, and considered BW->XY as being part of the continuity era. Also, while I wouldn't go down the route of calling Ash an emotionless robot like some people, there were definitely moments were he could've had a greater reaction to the current events.
SM Ash, while definitely a competent battler, beyond his clearly overly childish behavior he had many aspects of his personality stripped away from him. He rarely looked for new ways to become stronger, only taking part in his goal (the island challenge) when the plot reminded him that it existed, and he pretty much relied on power to fall into his lap a lot of times.
For instance by the time of the exhibition match, the power difference between Torracat and Incineroar was still just as great as the last time they fought, and they pretty much had to rely on a never before seen power up (absorbing blast burn) for the two of them to be on a similar power level. He had Rowlet's family train him new moves instead of doing it himself (which we as the audience accept, because it's cute), and hadn't even mentioned his sixth Pokemon for the match until Naganadel (who he had never trained with btw). There's also the fact that Ash was terrified of his edgy Lycanroc and even outright didn't trust it when he otherwise wouldn't hesitate to embrace his blazing Chimchar, and the Ash Ketchum that I know would NEVER loose his trust for any of his Pokemon, except maybe in OS. There's also the fact that he doesn't work on controlling Lycanroc's age issues until the plot reminds him that it exists.
Also, while Ash does make the declaration that he wants to travel the world at the end of SM, there was never any suggestion of him pursuing that initiative until he gets a job in the second episode of PK19. Also the TR trio apparently got promoted with a gachat machine AND have a wanted status once again, like they did at the beginning of OS, even though they never produced any results (leaving their only results in Alola).
Now, the new series isn't even 20 episodes in yet, but I will talk about it a little. While we do see a lot of Ash's past achievements in his room, it would seem like they avoided showing achievements that would acknowledge older characters like the split contest ribbon (May) or the sooth bells (Paul). Also the new series has gone down the route of making the concept of a Pokemon Master a vague term. While it was already somewhat vague even before this series, past seasons made it very clear that a Pokemon Master was a known concept, with posters and characters in the OS constantly referencing being a Pokemon Master, or Morrison saying that he wanted to be a Pokemon Master, and even Ash outright saying that beating Cynthia would make him a Pokemon Master. But hey, it's just the beginning

 

[XY Rules]

At first, I was in the OS>AG>DP>XY, BW>SM camp. But then I watched Lumoise Trainer Zac’s video about Ash’s character progression throughout each series. And it made a lot of sense and was really well-thought out. So well-thought out that I actually don’t think this could’ve been the intention, but it’s a really nice way to look at it imo. If you want to watch the video it’s called “The Evolution of Ash Ketchum|Pokemon Journeys” But if not I’ll summarize it here (though I’d still recommend checking it out since he explains it way better than I could).

But basically, it went like this. In OS, Ash went from a noob who got either things handed to him or just lucky wins to a genuinely good trainer. He also talks about how the Orange Islands saga was what propelled him into becoming that way with the unorthodox gym challenges he had to do.

In AG, he was a great trainer, and started training with his Pokemon more, actively teaching them new moves for the first time. But because he was a great trainer and was even a mentor now, it got to his head a lot and he became very cocky and overestimated his own skill a lot of times. Even to the point of being kind of conceited and ignoring advice from May (thinking that since he was her teacher, she couldn’t teach him anything) and Brock (thinking he didn’t need his advice anymore). Throughout this series, he learned to become more humble as a result, realizing that no matter how good you get, there’s always someone better.

DP: Becomes more mature, and while an even greater trainer than before, doesn’t oversell himself and realizes that he can learn from not only those with the same or more experience than him, but also those with less experience. His character arc here wasn’t about becoming stronger, but an ideological challenge with the whole Paul rivalry. Not only did he learn from others who were weaker than him, but also from someone who he actively hated. Showing just how mature he had become. Also, I’d like to bring up the fact that at the end of DP, when Ash was asked if he was going to go on another journey and compete in another league, he was actually very unsure almost as if he was questioning if he wanted to keep up with his dream (thanks Tobias).

BW: Okay, here’s what really helped me be okay with counting BW in Ash’s character progression (even though the reset was still a stupid idea in general). But he talks about how we actually have no idea how much time has passed in between the end of DP and the beginning of BW. And that after having defeated his greatest rival, made it to the Semifinals for the first time and even took out legendaries, Ash might’ve wanted to take a long break. You know, like getting burnt out? Since he’s never taken an actual break before. Meaning that it’s entirely possible Ash really did just forget everything because it’s been so long. Like how we forget a lot of stuff we learned in school over summer break.

He also mentioned that it was supposed to be a vacation. Ash wasn’t even prepared to go on a journey unlike in every previous saga, but he got excited. Basically, he was just rusty. The scene in the final episode with him remembering all his past companions and reaffirming his dreams was what led to his persona in XY. He was more determined than ever.

XY: Again, he was back to being mature and competent. But not only that, this time, he wanted to win. He was on a mission. Still using everything that he learned from all the previous sagas, the trainer competence he learned in OS, the humbleness he learned in AG, the willingness to learn from others in DP, and the never losing sight of your goal in BW. All of these qualities worked together to make him dead set on winning and more often than not succeed.

But in this series, he learned to not focus so intensely on winning and also appreciate the more finer things in life. To “stop and smell the roses” and appreciate the world around him. Leading him to take another break just as he did after DP, and then go to school in SM where he does just that. During his break in between XY and SM, he probably took note to keep up on his Pokemon training every now and again, which would explain why he still had his competence.

SM: Still a competent trainer, but now more of a goof. Just like in BW, he went to Alola for a vacation and again he got excited. But instead of going on a journey and looking to enter in a regional championship or anything of the sort, he decided to go to school. A way for him to do just what he learned in XY, to just stop, take a breath, and appreciate the world at large. To learn about more than just being a Pokemon Master. Heck, he even had to cook and do laundry for himself for the first time lol.

So yeah, I count every Ash as the same character now. Despite the massive problems I have with BW and SM. Honestly, I feel like I didn’t do that video justice, but hopefully you guys get the gist of it. I also added in some of my own thoughts and stuff that I personally took away from the anime in general and the video though.