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Iris

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Mrs. Oreo

Banned
I would have rather seen her catch a Bagon in her special episode than a Gible now that I think back.

I guess Bagon might've seemed better suited in a way cuz the Iris special aired around the time that Or/As was announced I think, but regardless of which dragon type she had ended up with, it's not like we would've seen it grow sadly. :[
 

Alloutℯ

Banned
Not exactly mean, but I suppose it makes her a smartass at times, which is a trait many find insufferable in excess.

Still Misty and Bonnie got away with being even bigger more insulting smartasses than Iris.

I remember Misty hitting Ash so she did seem crueler than Iris, but I wouldn't put Bonnie on Iris's level of sassiness since she and the Kalos cast usually admired Ash's feats.
 
I remember Misty hitting Ash so she did seem crueler than Iris, but I wouldn't put Bonnie on Iris's level of sassiness since she and the Kalos cast usually admired Ash's feats.

Apparently Misty gets a nostalgia pass for being "mean" to Ash (despite most Iris' haters probably not even growing up with OS)
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
Apparently Misty gets a nostalgia pass for being "mean" to Ash (despite most Iris' haters probably not even growing up with OS)

I think I said this before, but Misty had to deal with actual rookie Ash, who was a bit of a moron. I don't hate Iris, she's just my least favorite Pokegirl.
 

AdvancedGenGenesect

Well-Known Member
so it seems that this threads topic has drifted from if Iris is coming back or not to the the topic of her axew so Let me just say shes not coming back to the anime or even getting a referene in my opinion.
The writers have had a may reference by inserting her bandana into an episode and lillie even through a pokeball right at ash being a possible dawn reference but there seems to be no Iris reference at all.

Cilan himself got a special where he was in kalos with clemont but BW was te series right before XY so now theres no good reason for Iris to return since she was considered a bad character in a bad season and theres a new focus for the writers now being serena.

I kno Im kinda late to say this and all but talking about her Axew it seems it was a pokemon who didnt really impress anyone when it came to her team so I guess its OK.
 

Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
I'm sorta mixed with Iris.i like iris character she funny, playful and energetic and sure she may be annoying with the what a kid catchphrase and always make fun at Ash but keep in mind that Misty always argue/hit Ash through I don't hate Misty.My only problem with Iris is that she doesn't get that much focus when compared to other poke girl also her goal being a dragon type master doesn't even expand her character and I'm disappointed that Iris axew did not evolved or she should caught deino.i felt like the writer hate Iris because she didn't even return in the XY where cilan appear in 2 sidestory episode and he met Brock, Clemont and Bonnie. Although Iris has a lot great moments in the series such as her club battle against Ash,her battle against drayden, etc.It show that Iris is really a strong trainer and I felt like people overlooked Iris as a character also she is very underrated/overhated.through I don't blame Iris for this I blame the writer for Making the worst series.overall iris is not that bad as a character.
 
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PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
BW's somewhat infamous confirmation of Ash still being ten years old might also have had something to do with it. I mean, most people I know had assumed up till that point that each regional journey was equal to roughly one year (with DP Ash subsequently being viewed as around 14 or 15, I think), so you had the general impression that Ash's knowledge and skills were growing as he grew. As a result, BW's revelation that Ash was still the very same age as in episode one of OS, which was four generations and thirteen years ago by that point, probably gave most of us a startled or confused moment of, "...Wait, what?"

When you combine this "retcon" with Ash's initial childish and carefree attitude (at least compared to his DP persona), it's not hard to imagine how some may have come to regard Iris's "such a kid" line as just more salt in the wound.

Exactly.

Iris just came along at a poor time for the anime. Well, she wasn't a good character to start with but she certainly got screwed by the circumstances. Like Trip, she got stuck with a devolved Ash. The fan base (aka the people on this board and other Pokemon sites with older fans) rightly felt betrayed by the dumb decision to regress Ash and to have a character that, frankly, was a hypocrite criticize Ash was too much to bear. (Or Beartic)

Also, BW made the mistake of trying to recreate the OS by using the superficial elements of a fiery single type specialist and an older, experienced Gym Leader tagging along with an excited trainer. They forgot that what made Kanto work was the pure craziness and randomness that punctuated the region. More importantly, Ash's skills were reduced but his personality was not. Kanto Ash was a hot headed, egotistical rookie trainer with a good heart. BW Ash was a nice guy. It was fun to watch Misty take down OS Ash. He deserved it. Heck, he needed it. It was not entertaining to see Iris pick on BW Ash especially when Ash was such an even tempered kid. It came off as mean-spirited.

Well, she was still better than Paul.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
How the producers though regressing Ash would be a good idea is beyond me.

BTW, maybe part of the Iris hate is due to her being associated with Best Wishes.
 

Janovy

Banned
Since there a lot of people who claim Iris received zero character development and progress in her goal, I thought I'd make a post here to show why that is not true.

Let's begin.

1) The first notable piece of development comes from her first Pokemon, Drilbur. Yes, Iris wants to be a Dragon Master, but that doesn't mean is she is forbidden from catching other Pokemon. Excadrill's disobedience is a special type of disobedience. All the other types of disobedience we previously saw in this anime was due to Pokemon growing too strong and failing to acknowledge their own trainer. With Excadrill the situation was different. Even after Drilbur evolved into Excadrill, it fully obeyed to Iris and it wasn't until the battle with Drayden that Iris and Excadrill's relationship suffered. Iris's lack of care for Excadrill, pressuring it into a battle with Haxorus, a battle it clearly couldn't win was a sign of immaturity on her part. Excadrill closing itself off from Iris was both due to shame and its trainer's actions. Iris never really tried to understand Excadrill and she always assumed it wasn't her fault, until she shared the story with Cilan.

Cilan's valuable insight allowed Iris to realize that it was her fault and went as far to apologize for her actions, begging Excadrill to forgive her, saying he wouldn't even have to battle for her ever again as long as it meant they could be friends like they used to and that she would be considerate of its feelings in the future. That moment showed a lot of maturity on Iris' part as well as Excadrill's. Iris took the first step and admitted her mistake and Excadrill decided to learn Focus Blast as a sign of forgiveness. It was simply a beautiful moment.

The whole Iris and Excadrill storyline gets a neat resolution in Iris's battle vs Drayden where Excadrill manages to knock out the same Haxorus it lost to in the past thus bringing the story full circle.

2) Iris progressed a lot as a Dragon Master and as a trainer on her journey through the Unova region. First of all, her Axew, initially incapable of properly using Dragon Rage, managed to master the move with Iris's guidance and became a capable battler later on in the story, learning moves such as Giga Impact. A far cry from the baby it used to be. Yes, Iris was given a goal of raising Axew into a Haxorus, but since when are our main characters allowed to achieve their goal within their respective series? As far as I recall, none of the characters achieved their goals, so why is Iris getting so much flak for not achieving hers? Especially when it was already revealed by one of the animators that Haxorus would be difficult to constantly animate so they chose against evolving Axew.

Then, Iris is allowed to demonstrate her knowledge and gain more experience as a Dragon type expert as she travels through Unova. First she encounters a girl called Emmy whom she helps with her Druddigon. Due to her knowledge about dragon types, she manages to help an inexperienced trainer with her Druddigon. This is one of the first steps Iris makes towards becoming a full-fledged Dragon Master as she begins to work closely with other Dragon types.

Then there was the lonely Deino episode, where Iris recounted her memories from her past in the Dragon Village in order to help a young dragon overcome its shyness. She succeeded in doing that and managed to get Deino to open its heart to her. For a trainer who's aiming to become a Dragon Master, this also was a significant step in progressing towards her dream - she is helping more Dragon types and trying to understand them.

Probably one of the biggest pieces of Iris's development comes from Dragonite. First, let's talk about the Dragonite episode. It was such an amazing Iris episode where she showed why she deserves to be the Dragon Master. She went out of her way to protect and defend Dragonite whom no one would trust, when everyone accused of doing something it didn't do, when everyone wanted to take it down, Iris stood in front of it protecting it. Iris absolutely deserved to catch that Dragonite, and I will never understand anyone who says she didn't.

People say she should have caught a smaller dragon and evolved it...and I'm like...why? Mix things up a little. Thankfully, the writers did just that. Iris got a badass Dragonite, but of course, this came with a proper disobedience storyline. What better way to test Iris's potential as a Dragon Master but to give her an enraged Dragon with poor temper that loses control and lashes out when battle isn't going its way? The whole Dragonite storyline gave Iris A LOT of experience in dealing with a Dragon type like this and essentially allowed her to grow even further as a future Dragon Master.

Then we reach the climax of Iris's storyline when she returns to her village and a Zweilous loses control after evolving into Hydreigon. Iris uses her entire team to corner Hydreigon, then she jumps onto it and manages to calm it down. How do people not count it as progress in her goal? Obviously, Iris does not collect ribbons/keys/badges so stuff like this has to count, right? All these moments with different Dragon types, all the different experiences she gained during the region contributed towards her growing potential of becoming a Dragon Master. It's so plainly obvious.

In that same climax, where we learn about Iris' previous school life, we learn that Iris once battled with a Fraxure belonging to the school. Back then, Iris made a similar mistake as she did with Excadrill, she failed to recognize the Pokemon's state and pushed it to battle despite being incapable to go on further. Iris admits her mistake and apologizes to Fraxure after so many years, she owns up to mistakes that she made when she was younger.

And then we have Iris battling two Dragon type experts, Drayden and Clair, again, valuable experiences for an aspiring Dragon Master. And in Johto, Iris again gains more experience for her goal as she manages to track down a rogue Gible causing problems in Blackthorn City by managing to understand the cause behind its behavior. She also catches it, making it yet another Dragon type Iris owns.

3) Iris's whole storyline is just so compelling. One of the best parts about Iris is that you know nothing about her when she first appears, but as the story develops and more flashbacks are shown, you get to find out everything about her; her dreams, her fears, what she experienced as a child, what experiences led her down the path she's on today. Contrasting to Serena's flashbacks which is all about Ash saving her, Iris's flashbacks are so much more meaningful for her character and goal, majority of them revolving around Iris's experiences with other Dragon types or watching others interact with Dragon type Pokemon. And then Iris's whole inability to fit in with the rest of the crowd at the Opelucid Academy when she was a kid is a reminder that her story is just so much more deeper and sadder than most of the other female protagonists. The sad part is, people overlook or deliberately ignore that because, OH EM GEE, she called Ash a kid. What a b*tch.

4) Emolga admittedly does not add a whole lot to Iris's whole story, but it still contributes something. Aside from having an amazing personality and interactions with Ash's Snivy, we get an episode where Emolga temporarily joins Team Rocket because Iris gets mad it because she thinks Emolga did something wrong. After it is revealed Emolga didn't do anything wrong, Iris apologizes without any issues, further showcasing the growth she underwent since her early BW days where she would blame someone else rather than herself.

There is so much more I could talk about, such as the fact that Iris didn't actually "hate" Ash, that she realized his true worth as a trainer in episode 4 when he saved a hungry Tepig, that she was a true friend such as in the battle versus Roxie where she passionately cheered for Ash and even forced Cilan to dress up with her so they could get Ash out of his crisis, but then I realize, all of this is pointless.

Because no matter how much I talk, no matter what arguments I provide, no matter what canon events exist to prove my arguments, haters will disregard that and call her a b*tch because she has an annoying catchphrase. I mean, sure, Iris is not perfect, but she's so, so far away from being the worthless character you all try to portray her as.

And ultimately, I am just sad that the majority of the fandom will not recognize Iris for the character she really is but will continue to demonize her, bash her and twist her into a version of a character that she really isn't. It's sad and pathetic.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
More importantly, Ash's skills were reduced but his personality was not. Kanto Ash was a hot headed, egotistical rookie trainer with a good heart. BW Ash was a nice guy. It was fun to watch Misty take down OS Ash. He deserved it. Heck, he needed it. It was not entertaining to see Iris pick on BW Ash especially when Ash was such an even tempered kid. It came off as mean-spirited.

Well, she was still better than Paul.

From what I remember of BW though, wasn't Iris' teasing WAY more playful than a lot of Misty's? Iris called him a 'kid', it's a bit of smug thing a pretentious young girl says to look more mature than those around them, but it's not especially crippling an insult, if you even call it one. You could usually tell she was playing around.

Misty, at least in Kanto, never cut Ash any slack over his attitude or follies, despite the guy being a rookie and tended to act a bit more like the standard volatile tsundere girl. She outright snarled at him for not having any brains or in some cases outright physically attacked him, often not with playful gesture but vindictive anger. Sure Ash snarled back her, but you would, Misty's would qualify a lot more as outright bullying otherwise, while Iris was just an ineffectual smartalec Ash usually shrugged off.

Both were hypocrites, but from what I remember, Iris suffered karma just as often as Misty, if not more so (Iris at least had to work things out with all her Pokemon, Misty never improved Psyduck or Togepi in the slightest while Ash worked on his own lot such as Charizard).
 
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Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
Since there a lot of people who claim Iris received zero character development and progress in her goal, I thought I'd make a post here to show why that is not true.

Let's begin.

1) [/SIZE]The first notable piece of development comes from her first Pokemon, Drilbur. Yes, Iris wants to be a Dragon Master, but that doesn't mean is she is forbidden from catching other Pokemon. Excadrill's disobedience is a special type of disobedience. All the other types of disobedience we previously saw in this anime was due to Pokemon growing too strong and failing to acknowledge their own trainer. With Excadrill the situation was different. Even after Drilbur evolved into Excadrill, it fully obeyed to Iris and it wasn't until the battle with Drayden that Iris and Excadrill's relationship suffered. Iris's lack of care for Excadrill, pressuring it into a battle with Haxorus, a battle it clearly couldn't win was a sign of immaturity on her part. Excadrill closing itself off from Iris was both due to shame and its trainer's actions. Iris never really tried to understand Excadrill and she always assumed it wasn't her fault, until she shared the story with Cilan.

Cilan's valuable insight allowed Iris to realize that it was her fault and went as far to apologize for her actions, begging Excadrill to forgive her, saying he wouldn't even have to battle for her ever again as long as it meant they could be friends like they used to and that she would be considerate of its feelings in the future. That moment showed a lot of maturity on Iris' part as well as Excadrill's. Iris took the first step and admitted her mistake and Excadrill decided to learn Focus Blast as a sign of forgiveness. It was simply a beautiful moment.

The whole Iris and Excadrill storyline gets a neat resolution in Iris's battle vs Drayden where Excadrill manages to knock out the same Haxorus it lost to in the past thus bringing the story full circle.

2) Iris progressed a lot as a Dragon Master and as a trainer on her journey through the Unova region. First of all, her Axew, initially incapable of properly using Dragon Rage, managed to master the move with Iris's guidance and became a capable battler later on in the story, learning moves such as Giga Impact. A far cry from the baby it used to be. Yes, Iris was given a goal of raising Axew into a Haxorus, but since when are our main characters allowed to achieve their goal within their respective series? As far as I recall, none of the characters achieved their goals, so why is Iris getting so much flak for not achieving hers? Especially when it was already revealed by one of the animators that Haxorus would be difficult to constantly animate so they chose against evolving Axew.

Then, Iris is allowed to demonstrate her knowledge and gain more experience as a Dragon type expert as she travels through Unova. First she encounters a girl called Emmy whom she helps with her Druddigon. Due to her knowledge about dragon types, she manages to help an inexperienced trainer with her Druddigon. This is one of the first steps Iris makes towards becoming a full-fledged Dragon Master as she begins to work closely with other Dragon types.

Then there was the lonely Deino episode, where Iris recounted her memories from her past in the Dragon Village in order to help a young dragon overcome its shyness. She succeeded in doing that and managed to get Deino to open its heart to her. For a trainer who's aiming to become a Dragon Master, this also was a significant step in progressing towards her dream - she is helping more Dragon types and trying to understand them.

Probably one of the biggest pieces of Iris's development comes from Dragonite. First, let's talk about the Dragonite episode. It was such an amazing Iris episode where she showed why she deserves to be the Dragon Master. She went out of her way to protect and defend Dragonite whom no one would trust, when everyone accused of doing something it didn't do, when everyone wanted to take it down, Iris stood in front of it protecting it. Iris absolutely deserved to catch that Dragonite, and I will never understand anyone who says she didn't.

People say she should have caught a smaller dragon and evolved it...and I'm like...why? Mix things up a little. Thankfully, the writers did just that. Iris got a badass Dragonite, but of course, this came with a proper disobedience storyline. What better way to test Iris's potential as a Dragon Master but to give her an enraged Dragon with poor temper that loses control and lashes out when battle isn't going its way? The whole Dragonite storyline gave Iris A LOT of experience in dealing with a Dragon type like this and essentially allowed her to grow even further as a future Dragon Master.

Then we reach the climax of Iris's storyline when she returns to her village and a Zweilous loses control after evolving into Hydreigon. Iris uses her entire team to corner Hydreigon, then she jumps onto it and manages to calm it down. How do people not count it as progress in her goal? Obviously, Iris does not collect ribbons/keys/badges so stuff like this has to count, right? All these moments with different Dragon types, all the different experiences she gained during the region contributed towards her growing potential of becoming a Dragon Master. It's so plainly obvious.

In that same climax, where we learn about Iris' previous school life, we learn that Iris once battled with a Fraxure belonging to the school. Back then, Iris made a similar mistake as she did with Excadrill, she failed to recognize the Pokemon's state and pushed it to battle despite being incapable to go on further. Iris admits her mistake and apologizes to Fraxure after so many years, she owns up to mistakes that she made when she was younger.

And then we have Iris battling two Dragon type experts, Drayden and Clair, again, valuable experiences for an aspiring Dragon Master. And in Johto, Iris again gains more experience for her goal as she manages to track down a rogue Gible causing problems in Blackthorn City by managing to understand the cause behind its behavior. She also catches it, making it yet another Dragon type Iris owns.

3) Iris's whole storyline is just so compelling. One of the best parts about Iris is that you know nothing about her when she first appears, but as the story develops and more flashbacks are shown, you get to find out everything about her; her dreams, her fears, what she experienced as a child, what experiences led her down the path she's on today. Contrasting to Serena's flashbacks which is all about Ash saving her, Iris's flashbacks are so much more meaningful for her character and goal, majority of them revolving around Iris's experiences with other Dragon types or watching others interact with Dragon type Pokemon. And then Iris's whole inability to fit in with the rest of the crowd at the Opelucid Academy when she was a kid is a reminder that her story is just so much more deeper and sadder than most of the other female protagonists. The sad part is, people overlook or deliberately ignore that because, OH EM GEE, she called Ash a kid. What a b*tch.

4) Emolga admittedly does not add a whole lot to Iris's whole story, but it still contributes something. Aside from having an amazing personality and interactions with Ash's Snivy, we get an episode where Emolga temporarily joins Team Rocket because Iris gets mad it because she thinks Emolga did something wrong. After it is revealed Emolga didn't do anything wrong, Iris apologizes without any issues, further showcasing the growth she underwent since her early BW days where she would blame someone else rather than herself.

There is so much more I could talk about, such as the fact that Iris didn't actually "hate" Ash, that she realized his true worth as a trainer in episode 4 when he saved a hungry Tepig, that she was a true friend such as in the battle versus Roxie where she passionately cheered for Ash and even forced Cilan to dress up with her so they could get Ash out of his crisis, but then I realize, all of this is pointless.

Because no matter how much I talk, no matter what arguments I provide, no matter what canon events exist to prove my arguments, haters will disregard that and call her a b*tch because she has an annoying catchphrase. I mean, sure, Iris is not perfect, but she's so, so far away from being the worthless character you all try to portray her as.

And ultimately, I am just sad that the majority of the fandom will not recognize Iris for the character she really is but will continue to demonize her, bash her and twist her into a version of a character that she really isn't. It's sad and pathetic
Great analysis and I agree about people overlooked Iris as a character
 

Janovy

Banned
Great analysis and I agree about people overlooked Iris as a character
Thank you!

And yep, people will always see Iris for her catchphrase rather than any legit progress she had. It sucks, but it shows just how superficial and dumb this fandom really is.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Thank you!

And yep, people will always see Iris for her catchphrase rather than any legit progress she had. It sucks, but it shows just how superficial and dumb this fandom really is.

It's the same with Serena and the shipping part of her character as well :/
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
It's the same with Serena and the shipping part of her character as well :/

The thing is, the majority of the fandom loves Serena for her shipping with Ash and polite attitude towards him. Iris' personality and relationship with Ash is the complete opposite of Serena's, which is something the fandom doesn't like. :/
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
The thing is, the majority of the fandom loves Serena for her shipping with Ash and polite attitude towards him. Iris' personality and relationship with Ash is the complete opposite of Serena's, which is something the fandom doesn't like. :/

Yeah, but the shipping is totally eclipsing her actual character development, and her haters mostly hate her for shipping reasons too. Years from now people will only remember Serena as "Ash's waifu" and not for her development episodes that she showed that didn't involve shipping at all, like when she raced her mom, which is disgusting imo
 

Xeogran

Marshadow Fan
I'm an Iris fan myself and I'm grateful for the analysis, Janovy!
So glad to see there are some open-minded people over there too :)

I myself, had fun with Best Wishes and have fond memories of the saga.
The BW Trio were lively and had fun chemistry with eachother. It warms my heart whenever I see the fandom giving them the well-deserved love :594:
 

Janovy

Banned
I'm an Iris fan myself and I'm grateful for the analysis, Janovy!
So glad to see there are some open-minded people over there too :)

I myself, had fun with Best Wishes and have fond memories of the saga.
The BW Trio were lively and had fun chemistry with eachother. It warms my heart whenever I see the fandom giving them the well-deserved love :594:
Yay, nice to see another Iris fan!

I'm so happy to hear there are actually positive and open-minded people in this fandom, rather than toxic and bitter fans.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Iris, like the BW series, was botched by the writers.
I don't hate her, I find her annoying, but I dislike how poorly handled BW was.

I think there should have been a special featuring her during XY. They could have changed her character a bit like how they made Misty more likable in AG.
 

Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the shipping is totally eclipsing her actual character development, and her haters mostly hate her for shipping reasons too. Years from now people will only remember Serena as "Ash's waifu" and not for her development episodes that she showed that didn't involve shipping at all, like when she raced her mom, which is disgusting imo
Yeah people also overlooked Serena and she is just a shipping bait which is wrong Serena has a lot of character development that doesn't involve her Shipping*at all.
 
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SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Yeah people also overlooked Serena and she is just a shipping bait which is wrong Serena has a lot of character development that doesn't involve her Shipping*at all.

It seems the writers initially didn't know what to do with her other than having a crush on Ash.
 
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