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Iris

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PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
From what I remember of BW though, wasn't Iris' teasing WAY more playful than a lot of Misty's? Iris called him a 'kid', it's a bit of smug thing a pretentious young girl says to look more mature than those around them, but it's not especially crippling an insult, if you even call it one. You could usually tell she was playing around.

Misty, at least in Kanto, never cut Ash any slack over his attitude or follies, despite the guy being a rookie and tended to act a bit more like the standard volatile tsundere girl. She outright snarled at him for not having any brains or in some cases outright physically attacked him, often not with playful gesture but vindictive anger. Sure Ash snarled back her, but you would, Misty's would qualify a lot more as outright bullying otherwise, while Iris was just an ineffectual smartalec Ash usually shrugged off.

Both were hypocrites, but from what I remember, Iris suffered karma just as often as Misty, if not more so (Iris at least had to work things out with all her Pokemon, Misty never improved Psyduck or Togepi in the slightest while Ash worked on his own lot such as Charizard).

It was. But context is key.

OS Ash, as mentioned, was a glory hog with an inflation opinion of his skills. He needed to be taken down a peg by Misty (and others). In fact, it was fun to watch that happen. BW Ash was good natured. It was like watching bullies pick on the kid who brings cupcakes for the whole class. There is no enjoyment, just discomfort. Additionally, Ash and Misty went back and forth. Iris would say something and Ash rarely responded and if he did, it was even more rare for it to be witty. Throw in Ash's regression from DP and you can see why Iris wasn't always well-received. Collateral damage at times.

Also, Kanto was a much zanier place with an emphasis on over the top slapstick. BW was much more toned down.

I do agree that Iris suffered (more than Misty did, IMO). However, Iris also received more than Misty. Iris won a tournament, was given a pseudo legendary (Misty had to wait until her departure to receive Gyarados) and was shown to be a skill battler while Misty usually won because of Psyduck's DEM headache.

Please stop making me defend Misty. It is too painful. LOL
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Iris, like the BW series, was botched by the writers.
I don't hate her, I find her annoying, but I dislike how poorly handled BW was.

I think there should have been a special featuring her during XY. They could have changed her character a bit like how they made Misty more likable in AG.

Writer's missed a huge chance for Iris to try and master Mega Evolution for her now evolved Garchomp. Would have been great to see her again.

We got Korrina instead. I actually liked Korrina, but Iris would have been a far better fit.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Writer's missed a huge chance for Iris to try and master Mega Evolution for her now evolved Garchomp. Would have been great to see her again.

We got Korrina instead. I actually liked Korrina, but Iris would have been a far better fit.

That would have been awesome.
And people would be less complaining about Dragonite if she raised a FE Pseudo-Legendary.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
It was. But context is key.

OS Ash, as mentioned, was a glory hog with an inflation opinion of his skills. He needed to be taken down a peg by Misty (and others). In fact, it was fun to watch that happen. BW Ash was good natured. It was like watching bullies pick on the kid who brings cupcakes for the whole class. There is no enjoyment, just discomfort. Additionally, Ash and Misty went back and forth. Iris would say something and Ash rarely responded and if he did, it was even more rare for it to be witty. Throw in Ash's regression from DP and you can see why Iris wasn't always well-received. Collateral damage at times.

Also, Kanto was a much zanier place with an emphasis on over the top slapstick. BW was much more toned down.

I do agree that Iris suffered (more than Misty did, IMO). However, Iris also received more than Misty. Iris won a tournament, was given a pseudo legendary (Misty had to wait until her departure to receive Gyarados) and was shown to be a skill battler while Misty usually won because of Psyduck's DEM headache.

Please stop making me defend Misty. It is too painful. LOL

To tell you the truth even in the OS Ash's treatment got a bit over the top. It sometimes felt like the world was meant to take his follies out of proportion and act like sociopaths towards him (eg. the lack of sympathy he got when Pikachu or Metapod go injured, or the angry mob he got from hating Erika's perfume). He was an arrogant rookie, but exactly that, he was a rookie, he'd just started. Of course he'd make mistakes. And the world was so freaking harsh, especially considering their own hubris. The fact Ash was arrogant back was the only thing that kept it going too far, and even then it seemed used for an excuse to make him the designated villain.
 

Janovy

Banned
That would have been awesome.
And people would be less complaining about Dragonite if she raised a FE Pseudo-Legendary.
I'm afraid people would just hate Iris even more.

People despised her for getting a Dragonite (Ash getting a Dragonite would have been A-OK though), so think just how much they would hate her for getting a Mega when Ash wouldn't get a Mega? It would only make the haters hate her even more.

It's a lose-lose scenario.
 

Pepsi_Plunge

Dojyaaa~~aan
The other post about her was like locked or something... ironically when her race was brought up but anyway I've never really seen the best wishes series. What was all the backlash about her character about again? Meaning why was she the most hated poke girl in existence?

People here love to criticize Satoshi(a fictional character), but when an in-universe character does that, it's unacceptable, she wasn't "a good friend!". She also didn't look like the little princess the DP fans had just lost, so they found any possible argument to hate on her. Basically that, mostly biased/out of touch with reality reasons.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Speaking of which, didn't Iris supposedly 'ruin' Dawn by having Dawn call Ash a little kid?

Like...what? Lmao that's not even an insult, Paul was far worse in degrading Ash.
 

Janovy

Banned
Speaking of which, didn't Iris supposedly 'ruin' Dawn by having Dawn call Ash a little kid?
This fandom is inherently unable to grasp the concept of teasing, as well as the idea that people act differently around different people.

Dawn and Iris got along well and Dawn decided to humor Iris by teasing Ash using Iris' catchphrase. People mistook it as Dawn being "OOC" lmao.

...people are dumb... *sigh*
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
It's no falsehood to state Iris was the best written character in BW. But when pretty much everyone else is a writing mess that doesn't say much, on top of Iris' own writing issues. She's not terrible she's not perfect, my least favorite Pokegirl but not one I dislike, just a lot of wasted potential even if there were good moments here and there
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
This fandom is inherently unable to grasp the concept of teasing, as well as the idea that people act differently around different people.

Dawn and Iris got along well and Dawn decided to humor Iris by teasing Ash using Iris' catchphrase. People mistook it as Dawn being "OOC" lmao.

...people are dumb... *sigh*

Lol I loved when Dawn and Iris teased Ash and called him a kid; their interactions were probably the best of the entire anime imo
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
To tell you the truth even in the OS Ash's treatment got a bit over the top. It sometimes felt like the world was meant to take his follies out of proportion and act like sociopaths towards him (eg. the lack of sympathy he got when Pikachu or Metapod go injured, or the angry mob he got from hating Erika's perfume). He was an arrogant rookie, but exactly that, he was a rookie, he'd just started. Of course he'd make mistakes. And the world was so freaking harsh, especially considering their own hubris. The fact Ash was arrogant back was the only thing that kept it going too far, and even then it seemed used for an excuse to make him the designated villain.

Kanto was definitely written to be more realistic or harsher. The Gym Leaders were egotistical, and sometimes, downright cruel, the threat of death seemed greater. It made you wonder why ten year olds were allowed to leave home. The later regions were softened.

At times, it was ridiculous and has not aged well.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid people would just hate Iris even more.

People despised her for getting a Dragonite (Ash getting a Dragonite would have been A-OK though), so think just how much they would hate her for getting a Mega when Ash wouldn't get a Mega? It would only make the haters hate her even more.

It's a lose-lose scenario.

Ash ended up getting something similar, Ash-Greninja.
 

Cat's Eye Draco

Well-Known Member
People despised her for getting a Dragonite (Ash getting a Dragonite would have been A-OK though), so think just how much they would hate her for getting a Mega when Ash wouldn't get a Mega? It would only make the haters hate her even more.

Eh, the only problem I had with Iris's Dragonite was that it was, well, a Dragonite rather than a Gen V Dragon like Zweilous or Hydreigon that could have worked just as well. And even then it's not much of an issue; heck, it's only an issue at all because ever since Gen 1/2 I've been sick of Dragonites the same way most people on here seem to be sick of Charizards (though Dragonite, to be fair, hasn't had near as much focus in recent years as it once had). :p

As for her getting a Mega Evolution, I can't say that it would have bothered me any unless it took place from XY30-34 in place of Korrina's arc, and I'd only have had a problem with it then because it would mean that the Gible she caught in SS028 (which I assume was set shortly after her arrival in Johto, considering her first order of business when she decided to leave Ash and Cilan was to battle Clair) would have had to have evolved all the way to Garchomp in the span of roughly 30 episodes, which would be kinda pushing it, in my opinion. (I know, Goomy did it in 10, but I wasn't a huge fan of it in that case, either.) Had Iris had an ME arc set a bit later in the series, though (like, say, shortly before or after the Lumiose gym battle), that would have been great; I'd have loved to have seen that. :)
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
Ash ended up getting something similar, Ash-Greninja.

None of us knew about the Bond Phenomenon before XYZ was revealed, so we thought Ash may get a Mega Evolution. If he did before Iris, I'm not sure what the fandom would think.

Ash getting Ash-Greninja easily is debatable, but almost everyone was excited for Ash to get that kind of Pokemon because they like seeing him get strong Pokemon since he's the protagonist and the childhood hero we looked up to. Also with the fact that they thought Ash-Greninja would help Ash win the Kalos League.

That's the difference with Iris getting strong Pokemon. They like seeing Ash get strong Pokemon regardless of the circumstances while hating Iris for the same reason (even though Iris had to tame Dragonite when it went berserk and had to work hard to earn its obedience, so calling her out for being "given" Dragonite is false). Nobody really would've complained if Ash had caught Dragonite in BW or got Mega Evolution in XY.
 
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Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Eh, the only problem I had with Iris's Dragonite was that it was, well, a Dragonite rather than a Gen V Dragon like Zweilous or Hydreigon that could have worked just as well. And even then it's not much of an issue; heck, it's only an issue at all because ever since Gen 1/2 I've been sick of Dragonites the same way most people on here seem to be sick of Charizards (though Dragonite, to be fair, hasn't had near as much focus in recent years as it once had). :p

As for her getting a Mega Evolution, I can't say that it would have bothered me any unless it took place from XY30-34 in place of Korrina's arc, and I'd only have had a problem with it then because it would mean that the Gible she caught in SS028 (which I assume was set shortly after her arrival in Johto, considering her first order of business when she decided to leave Ash and Cilan was to battle Clair) would have had to have evolved all the way to Garchomp in the span of roughly 30 episodes, which would be kinda pushing it, in my opinion. (I know, Goomy did it in 10, but I wasn't a huge fan of it in that case, either.) Had Iris had an ME arc set a bit later in the series, though (like, say, shortly before or after the Lumiose gym battle), that would have been great; I'd have loved to have seen that. :)

Ah this is such a missed opportunity that it makes me sad :( lol. I would have loved to see Iris with a mega Garchomp
 

Pikachu979

Sinnoh Champion
This fandom is inherently unable to grasp the concept of teasing, as well as the idea that people act differently around different people.

Dawn and Iris got along well and Dawn decided to humor Iris by teasing Ash using Iris' catchphrase. People mistook it as Dawn being "OOC" lmao.

...people are dumb... *sigh*

I never understood how Dawn calling Ash a kid was mistook by some people as her being OOC. Dawn and Ash took shots at each other here and there like friends do so this really shouldn't be anything new.
 

alexterri

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't really get the hate for Iris. Her "You're just a little kid!" catchphrase was annoying, but besides that she was one of the better female companion imo. She did have an attitude...but so did Misty.

Her team was also pretty cool.
 

PokemonKnight

#1 Sylveon Fan
I honestly don't really get the hate for Iris. Her "You're just a little kid!" catchphrase was annoying, but besides that she was one of the better female companion imo. She did have an attitude...but so did Misty.

Her team was also pretty cool.

Well, like I said earlier, in the thread, it is all about context.

And I am not a Misty fan or an Iris hater., just an observer.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Ill never understand why there exists so much irrational;emphasis on irrational hate directed toward any fictional character. If people have issues with way how fictional character acts, behaves, what he/she is doing. Than that's not something for what anime character should be accounted for.

But those who stand behind it giving it specious portrayal of being "alive". Writers and directors.

More importantly i don't think Iris was bad character at all. Her design, backstory, entire premise existing behind character looked very promising. Whether ideas following her character were well executed or not is different matter altogether. And its true that there existed lot of room for improvement, there existed questionable choices made for her storyline and badly timed and forced at times pushes in her journey.

From fiasco with Langley with rivalry going nowhere. Dragonite capture and resolution of issues not corresponding with character at that time stage of development feeling rushed.

Interactions with Ash feeling like one sided direction not witnessing to two way street between parties outsmarting, arguing, teasing and questioning each other ideals and ideas. Like we had from Ash and Misty chemistry which has yet to be replicated in such genuine way.

Followed by Iris dragon master goal in end feeling undefined with no clear objection of in what direction her future will go.

But i cannot hold that against her, because in this mess of unfinished careers, unclear futures and half baked storylines we could put pretty much every past main character. With Iris not being exception but rule.

That being said it would be highly incorrect and ignorant to deny how her character had moments of glory and positive influence left on story and those around herself.

For once through her existence audience was able to get closer and more in depth look at one of ever so popular and very rare pokemon specie; dragons.
She had sympathetic trait to herself of living isolated from humans and growing up surrounded by wild pokemon. Leading toward problem with socialization and being effectively outcast. Hence why she never felt like she belonged in Opelucid city or school for that matter.

Her personality radiated with boldness, curiosity, wild tone added to her expressions and actions backed with revealing to have good intentions and caring side to herself.
Which may have sometime been expressed in unusual way, but were anything but signs of malice or detest.

Being amused quite a few times by her sarcastic remarks and comedy note lying beneath that rough fixture of hers.

So far i noticed how most hate comes from people not standing notion of her character defeating Ash in tournament but lets be objective in here. It does not matter who were opponents Iris and Ash faced before getting to finals or under what circumstances victories were made. Because actual battle between Iris and Ash was clean and perfectly legal. Excadrill had immense type advantage over Pikachu. Who unfortunately was also suffering from reset button higher force named writers and producers decide to implement, this time extending this to Ash himself and overall maturity and experience he used to have.

But at end of the day, that's not Iris fault and while i imagine for many seeing Ash who just defeated two legendary enduing top 4 in DP league recently to get defeated rather easily might have been painful for some to watch.

That still does not change fact that Iris won fairly.

Second thing why many cant seem to stand her is catchphrase "Your such a kid!". Granted hearing same catchphrase over and over again being used might have been annoying.

However it baffles me that so many people do not understand or don't want to understand how this was teasing out of endearment. Friends like to tease each other at times. Some less, while some more being their way of expressing affection and support.

But Iris sarcasm in 99% of time was without any malice or harmful tones present within it.
Yet detractors twist around this to the point of this being evidence how Iris hated Ash, Bull***.

Was Iris my favorite female lead? No.

But was she embodiment of demon and terrible character who loathed Ah? Definitely not having qualities and redeemable aspects within her character just like everybody else. Most importantly she had and still has potential to be done more than what we got in end. Which can also be applied to some others(like Tracey, May, Cilan, Misty etc).

In end whether it was fair or not that she didn't had obligatory follow up cameo in Kalos, with way continuity has been treated, past main characters being treated with utmost disrespect with even roots of this very show being desecrated:

(see 20th anniversary movie which has zero recognition of anime roots and history).

Even if Iris received one follow up, chances are she would never be seen again sadly. In fact i doubt we will ever gonna see any of replaced past main characters who traveled with Ash anymore. Because why invest and expand on lovable characters we used to grow up with taking them in new, exciting directions doing sequels of their own unfinished stories.

When we can receive one after another new generic character who will be replaced as well never to be seen or picked up again. Apparently "pokemon anime cannot be kept fresh and interesting with older characters".
 
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