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The Burqa

CAH

Calm And Hyper
What are your opinions on the Burqa (in which I assume everyone knows about, but just incase http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa).

This garment, in which is associated with Islam has already been banned in France (and several other countries like Belgium).

The reasoning behind this is usually associated with security, in that a person's face should be visible in public areas.

The ban isn't actually specifically targeting Islam, Women or any such group, but rather anyone who conceals their face in public.

Do you think it's right to ban such an item of clothing, or do you think it should be allowed to be worn in public?




I my opinion the ban is justified, as whilst people should have freedom in what they wear, there are obviously limitations on the extreme. For example being completely naked is an offence, and being completely covered up to the point of being unidentifiable clearly has security implications. Those Muslims who truly believe in wearing something like this are perfectly capable of wearing the less extreme Hijab, which covers only the hair, rather than the whole face.

Also, wearing the full Burqa, especially when not of the woman's choice is not only extreme in my opinion, but it also removes the identity of the woman. Imagine if every woman had to wear the full Burqa. There would be no distinguishing between any of them, and the public would feel like a much more anti social and inclosed place.

The jusification of wearing the Burqa (stopping men from looking at women and becoming aroused) is quite poor in my opinion, and rather over the top. A woman is perfectly capable of dressing modestly without removing all indentifying features of that of a human being. Furthermore women shouldn't have to suffer wearing such things (if they do not wish to do so) just because of the weakness of man. It seems unfair that women must dress in a certain way because of a certain flaw of man.

There are also many environments in which wearing a Burqa is clearly unacceptable, e.g. in a court of law, at airport security and anywhere in which you need to present ID. The Burqa also provides a social barrier, particularly in environments such as schools, and work. It's harder to talk to someone who won't even show you their face, and it takes away from the community.

In conclusion the Burqa is clearly an extremely over the top item of clothing in which takes away from the identity of a person and has security implications. The hijab is a much more sensible and realistic subsitute for those who feel it's necessary for them to wear any form of Islamic covering.
 

Vermehlo_Steele

Grand Arbiter II
The whole point of liberalism (the real one, not the Fox news version of liberalism) is that people should be free to live their lives how they wish. If we go down the path of banning clothing in public, we become no better than the Iranian mullahs, Saudi religious police and adherents of bin Laden. In fact, if the West starts banning clothing on arbitrary grounds, we are worse because at least the fundamentalists are honest about their discontent of 'immoral' clothing on ideological grounds.

Clearly, the burka needs to be removed in places/situations like banks, ID checks and other such examples. But banning the burka in streets or supermarkets? That's fascist.

I also know that the number of women wearing burkas is very low; I believe 500 people out of 60,000,000 wear burkas in France. Drafting a whole law for these very few people seems like precisely the type of nit-picking, ideological intrusion into people's lives over an exaggerated concern that I would associate with China or Iran or Cuba but not the West.

You mention that the burka is a barrier to social inclusion; and I agree, the inability to see a face or body language is not conductive to trust and communication. However, this is the whole point of freedom; you make a choice and you accept the consequences. What's next? will the state declare that piercings are illegal because they are unsightly? Will the state now declare that insults are illegal because people's feelings get hurt?

All in all, barring the obvious security situations, there is no logical reason to ban the burka in public.
 

Liberty Defender

Well-Known Member
My opinion on it is irrelevant. I'm not Muslim. People who practice the Muslim faith that reside in the United States deserve the same rights to freedom of religion that all other people enjoy. Banning the burqa is absolutely outrageous and any legislation should be deemed unconstitutional.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Even though I do not where a burqa myself, I have no problem if other people chose to wear one. I think it's completely idiotic to ban them on a contrived idea of it causing a security risk.
 

Calamity™

aka Lamia
I do agree that they should not be banned, because it is important to respect peoples religions to some extent. There's also the case of freedom and how banning the wearing of Burqas is a violation of this. I do, however, think that it is equally wrong that some Muslim men will force their daughters, or other female relatives, to wear these. It should be their own choice as to how they dress, and this shouldn't be influenced by others. This could also be linked to how there is a lack of equality between the sexes, but I won't go into that seeing as this is just about the clothing. I know Muslim girls who follow and act accordingly to their religion, and they don't wear Burqas or Hijabs. It's their choice and that's the way it should be.
 

7 tyranitars

Well-Known Member
I am glad it is banned in my country, besides the fact it has the same effect a mask worn by burglars, it is very discriminating towards women, and 9/10 times it is forced up on them by their husband.
 
It is a vile, oppressive piece of clothing.

That said, I don't think it should be banned from being worn, except in buildings where its removal is a necessity.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
I think Sno is on the pulse. The Burqa is a religious issue and should only be "compromised" when it is in direct conflict with national security.
 

Gergovia

Banned
It should definitely banned in places like banks and airports. I don't give a damn what you're holy book tells you to do, if I'm a clerk at a bank I want to see your face. Freedom of religion is different than using your religion to get away with things the average citizen cannot. Unfortunately there are those who don't have the intelligence to understand this very simple concept. Can I go into an airport wearing a ski mask? What about latex Halloween mask of George Bush? Hockey mask? Hell, what about just a towel with holes poked through it? No, no, no, and no. I can't. But ooohhhhh okay, certain Muslim women can because they believe God told them to? That's ********. Sorry. No wait, I'm not sorry. It is. It's straight up BS.

And don't even feed me a bunch of liberal crap about "Like, OMG it's not like EVERY MUSLIM is a terrorist, you are soooooo Islamophobic." Yeah okay, tell me something I don't know? Not every person is a theif, or a murderer, or an extortionist, etc. Yet, public places like banks etc still take precautions to prevent violence or other crime. What's your point? Sure, not every Muslim is a terrorist. Not even a majority of Muslims are terrorists. Awesome, I get that. Duh. There's no point being made there though.

I believe 500 people out of 60,000,000 wear burkas in France.

You're point being? I bet the number of Muslims that blow themselves up is even lower than that outside of france.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
You can wear the George Bush mask, but I think the Micheal Meyer's one would be much cooler. You can even claim it as a part of your religion.

Seriously though, It boils down to do we want to be safe (less liberty) or free?
 

Lethal Llama

Random Trainer
It should definitely banned in places like banks and airports. I don't give a damn what you're holy book tells you to do, if I'm a clerk at a bank I want to see your face.
As... politically correct as you put it, you are correct. Banks, airports maybe even in governmental buildings and the like where security is tighter for a reason should ban the Burqa (or however you spell it). But outside of these places, people should be allowed to wear it. There is no law against going shopping in a hockey mask, after all.
 

Gergovia

Banned
Seriously though, It boils down to do we want to be safe (less liberty) or free?

People bring up this point often (as well as that stupid quote by Ben Franklin) when ever they think the big bad gov'mint is just a tramp'lin over their freedom god dangit! It's about drawing a line though. People that think they have the religious right to wear a burka in an airport cannot see that line though. Can I blow myself up in a building? Why not? It's MY body, I can do what I want. It's MY religion, I believe it tells me to do so. They're MY explosives that I bought with MY money. Who are you to tell me I can't? It's a free country. Oh...wait. Liberty...freedom...doesn't actually mean you can do whatever the hell you want? Oh my God! There are exceptions...? Exceptions like... if it puts other people in danger or compromises security? No way! I guess this isn't really a free country after all, America's fascist, and if we aren't already we're just a head'n down that dangerous road.

Please.
 

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
Not at all. If you want security you have to sacrifice freedom. If I want my house to be "Totally secure" I have to reinforce the walls, remove windows or replace them with thick lexan, install motion sensors, security cameras, Vault door ect.

No freedom means I can come and go when I please where I please, with whom I please. Security means you will have to have valid ID, submit to security checks, wait in line to get in line to get searched. Freedom is the free pass for bad people. So I say it again, if you want security you must sacrifice freedom. Now what is the limit of freedom you will give up to be safe? I have a military and private security background so I am not talking alarmist, I am talking professional experience Gergovia. Point is the safer you are the less free you will be.
 

Geekachu

_____________
It should only be banned where necessary. Elsewhere, let people wear "their" religious symbols.

That's not to say that I agree with the burqa, since that (as previously voiced in the thread) I find it to be a horrible thing which defiles identity. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I find there to be a slight irony of these sorts of bans being described as an 'assault on freedom', when the burqa itself is such a oppressive item of clothing in the first place. But I suppose this isn't a discussion about the burqa itself. Shame.
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
If someone wants to wear one, sure go ahead. It's a case of freedom of expression and religion. You don't make laws that target a specific religion (especially one of the world's largest).
 
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