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Marvel Universe Discussion Thread - **SPOILER WARNING** (movies, shows, etc.)

nel3

Crimson Dragon
saw the Venom 2 trailer, that symbiote is such a slob and the line the store owner/cashier saying "hello Venom" cracked me up. that movie looks good.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
saw the Venom 2 trailer, that symbiote is such a slob and the line the store owner/cashier saying "hello Venom" cracked me up. that movie looks good.

Same here. I'm so hyped for the movie. It looks like it'll be good.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
Same here. I'm so hyped for the movie. It looks like it'll be good.
im not the biggest fanboy of marvel series but there are some series that i do like more. the more recent spiderman series is not one i like, i like the previous peter parker actors than the newest one. i always liked the Venom carnage parts of the series. maybe they will have a movie that has Lasher in it also.

dont get me started on the Zack snyder series, his visual effects=plot thought process is dumb.
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant

It's Time To Accept Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Isn't MCU Canon​

The first episode of Loki proves Marvel Studios will never reference Agents of SHIELD or be constrained by it - but the show still matters regardless.

It's time to accept Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is not canon to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. When Marvel Television launched Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in 2013, the show was positioned as the MCU's official tie-in TV series. Unfortunately, it soon became clear the connections would only ever work one way; the TV series would follow the lead of the films, but the movies would never reference it in turn. Joss Whedon even passed on using Agent Phil Coulson in Avengers: Age of Ultron. "As far as I'm concerned, in this movie, Coulson's dead," he explained at the time. "If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson's alive, it's like putting f***ing John Gielgud in the sequel to 'Arthur.' It mattered that he's gone. It's a different world now. And you have to run with that." The relationship between Marvel Studios and Marvel Television became even more strained after a corporate restructuring in 2015 that separated Marvel Studios from the rest of Marvel Entertainment.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. managed to continue tying into the films regardless, sometimes on thematic levels rather than in terms of plot points, and there's a sense in which Thanos himself was the villain of season 5. When ABC unexpectedly renewed the show for another two seasons, it caused something of a continuity nightmare as Marvel Television had absolutely no idea what the film studio had planned for the aftermath of the Snap. There's simply no way to reconcile the timeline of seasons 6 and 7 with the events of Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. For all that's the case, though, fans of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have desperately tried to figure out how things can fit.

But the last few months appear to have settled the issue. Marvel and Disney set up an option to view the MCU in chronological order on Disney+ - and the new timeline subtly broke Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. WandaVision featured a completely different design for a book of dark magic called the Darkhold from the one featured in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and now Loki has followed Joss Whedon's lead in avoiding referencing Coulson's resurrection. However warmly Kevin Feige may speak of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., it's clear the films and subsequent Disney+ series never intend to reference it, and the studio will not be constrained by it in any way. For all intents and purposes, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and, by extension, the rest of Marvel Television's productions, are not canon.

Though Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. may not be canon, the Multiverse introduced in Loki provides a way to make it fit. Viewers who want to enjoy the series because of its relationship to the rest of the MCU can simply presume it takes place in a branched timeline, one in which Coulson was resurrected and things worked out in a different way, one in which Thanos' Snap never happened because of changes made earlier in the timeline.

But even that isn't truly necessary. The debate over Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s canonicity has always been driven by a mistaken assumption, that the series' status in relation to the rest of the MCU is what makes it worth watching. It's easy to understand why that error has slipped in, because the connectivity was at the center of its marketing back when it launched. But over the course of its seven seasons, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. blazed its own trail and developed its own rich mythology, embracing Inhumans, a new Ghost Rider, and even its own model of time travel that was more consistent than Avengers: Endgame. The connectivity is not what makes this show worth the rewatch, it's the ever-improving quality of its writing, and the growing skills of its actors and crew throughout the seven seasons. Canon does not dictate quality, as Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. proves.

So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
You should definitely watch Loki, each ending has you hooked on what happens next! It may not be THE Loki but they still make you care for him

I can't wait for this week's episode

Wait, why isn't it the Loki? I mean it's the Loki we start out with and get to know through the first Thor-movie and Avengers - and doesn't get the development he does through Thor2, Ragnarok and Infinity War, but it's the same Loki, with the same backstory and same motivations.

And honestly, all Thor and Ragnarok did was break down the facade that was always there. And Loki gets caught up on all his future endeavors in the first episode. He knows what's going to happen those events have still made an impact on him - even if he physically wasn't there..

So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant



So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)

Had to point this one out: "If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson's alive, it's like putting f***ing John Gielgud in the sequel to 'Arthur."

John Gielgud was in the sequel to 'Arthur'. Granted, it was a vision and he wasn't alive... But I think that's the point: his death mattered. -.-

If you have to do mental gymnatics and assumptions to believe something is canon, it probably isn't. Either way, I don't care. I tried to watch AoS and didn't make it past episode 2. I see it as the relic of the past.

The Marvel/Netflix-shows are still not confirmed non-canon iirc. There's a chance/rumor that Matt will appear in SM:NWH. If he is canon, than by extension the rest of the Defenders will be.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
The Thanos Helicopter was in today's episode lol
So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant



So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)
That will just continue going on until we get Quake and Daredevil in the MCU proper
I'm sure "Inhumans" is getting pruned considering how it sucked, meaning it'll be a different Blackbolt/etc. But Agents of SHIELD lasted for years and had a following. From what I gather the people who say 'it's not canon' didn't watch past season 1 or just hate the show. I'm hoping we'll see some of the characters as part of SWORD later on
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
Either way, I don't care. I tried to watch AoS and didn't make it past episode 2. I see it as the relic of the past.
Omg... I know the first few episodes were very run-of-the-mill but I would like to recommend you to try it once more. Once you get to the part of Season 1 when Hydra comes in, it gets really good.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

ScreenRant is garbage, it should be noted. Publishing clickbait, paper-thin rumors, and opinion pieces like they're news does not make a trustworthy website. Do yourself a favor and stop reading it.

With that out of the way, if we take canon by its basest meaning, in this case being "it will matter to the MCU going forward," it's not wrong. The ABC and Netflix shows were produced by a division of Marvel that no longer exists, in no small part because it wasn't quite resulting in the interconnected properties Marvel Studios wanted. The Disney+ shows don't have that issue. They didn't matter even when they were current and they don't matter any more so with Marvel Television and its chief architect no longer in those positions. The AoS crew would routinely talk about how low on the totem pole they were in what characters and stories they were and weren't permitted to use, and how their shooting schedule made it difficult to impossible to tie into the ongoing MCU films as the series went on. By the latter two or three seasons, even they had to admit they weren't "really" in the MCU anymore so much as they were in a theoretical offshoot of it.

Love and appreciate the shows for what they were, but they're off in their own little corner, peripherally deriving from the MCU but never filtering back into it, and with the shows over and Marvel Television defunct (largely so that future Marvel TV shows can be produced by Feige and Marvel Studios proper), they're unlikely to ever factor in.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Omg... I know the first few episodes were very run-of-the-mill but I would like to recommend you to try it once more. Once you get to the part of Season 1 when Hydra comes in, it gets really good.

No. I don't want to go back and watch it. There's no point and there's no time in my life for me to watch a show that is never going to go anywhere. From what I've read, basically any connection to the MCU it had got cancelled early on and they just went on trying to keep it together. If that's their approach it isn't worth my time and it should've gotten cancelled a lot earlier by the powers that be.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
No. I don't want to go back and watch it. There's no point and there's no time in my life for me to watch a show that is never going to go anywhere. From what I've read, basically any connection to the MCU it had got cancelled early on and they just went on trying to keep it together. If that's their approach it isn't worth my time and it should've gotten cancelled a lot earlier by the powers that be.

While the disconnections to the MCU are disappointing, I do recommend you watch some of the fight scene compilations on youtube specifically about Daisy(Skye) and May. Seriously these two women kicked all the ass on the show and deserve your eyes. I think Marvel would be crazy to erase specifically these two ladies as they were everything on the show.
 

Monster Guy

Fairy type Trainer
I liked Black Widow, but now I need to catch up on Falcon and Winter Soldier and Loki.

But why do so many people have a problem with female Taskmaster? I’m not attached to the comic character, and never heard of them before this movie? Are they that popular?
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
Black Widow was so worth the 29.99 I paid for to get it in Disney+ Premier Access. This was a top notch movie!!! I loved it.

So to whoever wants to speak on the end credits scene...

I am guessing that scene with Yelena and Valentina pointing out Clint will be the transition into what Hawkeye the series is about, correct?
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I am guessing that scene with Yelena and Valentina pointing out Clint will be the transition into what Hawkeye the series is about, correct?

I don't think "about," as in I don't think it's going to be the focus of the entire series, but it definitely sets up part of it.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
And just like that Sylvie lost any likeability she had,
dooming the universe for her selfish desire
 

Litleonid

Well-Known Member
I KNEW IT! All this build up and it paid off in a huge way! Kang the Conqueror is FINALLY here! Sylvie killing him just unleashed the madness, and now we have an even more deadly Kang awaiting, just as Kang promised. WOW the finale of Loki paid off in a huge way. Sylvie just unleashed hell and now we know what Doctor Strange has to deal with.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
As a community, I'm glad we're spoiler-tagging atm! But, could we at least make clear what content we are spoiler-tagging? Between Black Widow and Loki, things just popped off again. :D

Wow! What an ending to Loki! This basically reaffirms my stance towards AoS and the Disney+ shows. You can probably still watch the MCU without watching the Disney+ shows (I don't see how, but one can probably manage), but you'll be doing yourself a disfavour when you don't.

I mean really! Spoiler-free reviews!
WandaVision: Easy A.
- The story was great.
- The visuals were okay (though the practical effects in the earlier episodes were amazing).
- The character progression was superb.
- Ralph Bohner is the only reason why this wasn't A+, aside from that every choice was sincerely effective to tell Wanda's story.

Falcon&theWinterSoldier: Easy B+/A-
- Mostly due to them tempering with the plot in post which led to some inconsistencies in the story-arcs.
- Visuals were amazing, especially the aerial scenes with Sam.
- Character pogression again superb and handled with care, both for Sam, Bucky, heck even Walker was captivating.
- Sharon's future arc looks promising, but her being who she is in the show and her choices during the show hold a narrative flaw.

Loki: Again an easy A, maybe even A+
- Character progression was amazing.
- Plot was slow at first (had me nodding off during Ep1 and Ep2 (might be on me, I shouldn't start watching shows at 11pm), but then picked up really nicely.
- Without spoiling episode 6: You basically know about the possibilities during the shown, but episode 6 just... Mindblown.

I'm going to see Black Widow in theatres tomorrow, unless they change Covid-restrictions overnight.. I'm glad to see people are spoiler-tagging! :)

Can't wait for tomorrow to come, but all these shows. Darn.. I really, really can't wait to see Doctor Strange 2 and Antman3, but we've got so many great spectacles to get to in between! Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Spidey, Doctor Strange2, Thor4, BP2, Antman3, Guardians3.. All the Disney+ shows they've got stacked: Hawkeye, Moon-Knight, Secret Invasion, IronHeart+Armor Wars.

I know I didn't mention Eternals and the Marvels.. I've got hype for at least Eternals, but yeah.. still little to go for with the Marvels unfortunately. If there's two movies that I fear that could end up flopping, it would be these two.
 
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Nyter

Island Challenger
So... again, I feel that Loki, the character, was somewhat different in this series than the Loki in the MCU movies, considering it is the variant of what happened in Endgame which meant the progression that occurred after that (Thor: Dark World, Thor: Ragnarok, and Avengers: Infinity War) did not take place (even though Mobius showed him on a TV screen). I felt that Loki was made to be a hero too drastically especially with all of a sudden finding friendship in Mobius, falling for Sylvie, and
disregarding his selfish desires.

Loki the show... FCKN Superb! It is definitely the show that helps propel what is to come in the MCU.

And as Locormus said, I feel you CAN watch the MCU without watching the Disney+ series, but the context behind them would not be as deep.

Spoiler regarding Loki
Bummed Loki did not really have an end or mid-credits scene

also Sylvie doing it up type Peter Quill a la Infinity War mode with that last act she pulled.

A friendly reminder (and I am sure I don't NEED to mention), make sure to wait all the way until the end of the rolling credits to catch end credits scenes for WandaVision, Falcon and The Winter Soldier, and Black Widow. They do a great job of showing what is to come.

Speaking of Disney+ series of the MCU:

WandaVision has been nominated for a whopping 23 Emmy awards

And Falcon and The Winter Soldier has been nominated for a total of 5 Emmy Awards.

And I am sorry for being too biased but I hope they win them all. Disney/Marvel Studios have psychologically kept me sane and safe during the pandemic and I have a lot of gratitude for that.

P.S. - I am JUST watching The Punisher Season 2 on Netflix. If it is all Canon, it is crazy how something as Cosmic as Loki is in the same universe as something as down-to-earth and dark as The Punisher is in. In my head, all MCU programs are within the Universe and it works out intricately.
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
So I watched Black Widow yesterday and I liked it although I do wish Widow had more fight scenes and was just shown to be stronger. She was thrown around a bunch in the movie so it was kind of sad to not see her being as badass as she usually is.

I liked the story of the movie, the only real downside of a character for me was the "dad" who was pretty useless, got his ass beat in the one big fight he had so meh.

Yelena was also really good for me and wouldn't mind seeing her take up the Widow mantel since she has the same training and can kick ass too.

Overall a good movie, was a little disappointed from an action standpoint especially since with Widow we expect more action but it was more of character movie so I get it.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
So I watched Black Widow yesterday and I liked it although I do wish Widow had more fight scenes and was just shown to be stronger. She was thrown around a bunch in the movie so it was kind of sad to not see her being as badass as she usually is.

I liked the story of the movie, the only real downside of a character for me was the "dad" who was pretty useless, got his ass beat in the one big fight he had so meh.

Yelena was also really good for me and wouldn't mind seeing her take up the Widow mantel since she has the same training and can kick ass too.

Overall a good movie, was a little disappointed from an action standpoint especially since with Widow we expect more action but it was more of character movie so I get it.

I kinda agree with your overall sentiment than the actual points.

First, I really liked the movie. But I had very few expectations going in. You expected action with Natasha, but she's just not IronMan/Thor/Cap/DoctorStrange.. so I didn't expect much outside of what we saw the trailer.

The dad was played David Harbour, who you might know as Hopper from Stranger Things. It's kind of ironic since he has a tragic history as a dad in that show and he's so aloof here so it's a funny dichotomy between the two roles while both being dads. Also, he was imprisoned for many years, gained weight and was pretty much out of form.. Roughing up and stalling Taskmaster was the best he could do and it worked well enough. But the 3rd act was kinda mèh.

Yelena is a scenestealer. Just about everything she did was gold.

I'd probably rate this movie as a 7.
 
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