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[WillDaSnail]

Quick question out of curiosity's sake:

What's the potential viability of Araquanid in competitive play (specifically around its signature Ability, Water Bubble)? I feel that folks will take advantage of using Water type attacks on it (3x boost to Water type attacks before items and weaknesses/resistances are considered). The only downside I see to using the spider, though, is its low base HP and Speed stats.

Thoughts?

 

[Fawoosh]

Quick question out of curiosity's sake:

What's the potential viability of Araquanid in competitive play (specifically around its signature Ability, Water Bubble)? I feel that folks will take advantage of using Water type attacks on it (3x boost to Water type attacks before items and weaknesses/resistances are considered). The only downside I see to using the spider, though, is its low base HP and Speed stats.

Thoughts?

The vast majority of mons in Alola are very slow but have high defenses. Araquanid is no different in that, and I think that this guy will be a powerhouse similar to Azumarill. Water Bubble is absurdly strong, not just in the powerboost that it gives to water moves, but also in that you can safely switch into most fire moves. You'll take neutral damage, reducing the power of the move by half and immune to any burns. Being immune to burns also makes it a solid wallbreaker against the likes of Sableye and company who utilize Will o' Wisp.

Also food for thought, it learns Power Split through breeding, and with it's low base attack stats, could be a welcome boost to itself and a strong debuff to the opponent.

 

[WillDaSnail]

The vast majority of mons in Alola are very slow but have high defenses. Araquanid is no different in that, and I think that this guy will be a powerhouse similar to Azumarill. Water Bubble is absurdly strong, not just in the powerboost that it gives to water moves, but also in that you can safely switch into most fire moves. You'll take neutral damage, reducing the power of the move by half and immune to any burns. Being immune to burns also makes it a solid wallbreaker against the likes of Sableye and company who utilize Will o' Wisp.

Also food for thought, it learns Power Split through breeding, and with it's low base attack stats, could be a welcome boost to itself and a strong debuff to the opponent.

I completely forgot about how important the "immune to burns" is when dealing against Will-O-Wisp users; definitely crucial to dealing with those mons (and not lose offense at the same time)

And I didn't know about Power Split; definitely something I will consider if I intend to utilize Araquanid in a serious manner. Thanks for those pointers!

 

[Fawoosh]

I completely forgot about how important the "immune to burns" is when dealing against Will-O-Wisp users; definitely crucial to dealing with those mons (and not lose offense at the same time)

And I didn't know about Power Split; definitely something I will consider if I intend to utilize Araquanid in a serious manner. Thanks for those pointers!

Power Split is definitely something I want to play around with. Despite it's low hp, it has monster defense. 68 base hp still isn't the lowest around however, a solid 92 defense and whopping 132 Sp.Defense! Not only does that mean it can just eat special hits for breakfast anyway, doubly so for fire attacks, add in Power Split and you'll be hard pressed to take out Araquanid short of a flying or rock move. Even the majority of electric moves are special, so I'm confident it could take a Tbolt.

The only downside is that Water Bubble basically locks into mono moves. 70 base attack means that any other type of move is going to have a bit of a below-average impact, making Araquanid very predictable. If Araquanid turns out to be the beast I predict, we may see a rise in the use of mons with Water Absorb and Storm Drain, which you should keep in mind. Vaporeon, Quagsire, Jellicent, Gastrodon and even Seismitoad will come back to see popular play if Araquanid takes off. Also to check Golisopod who I think will also be a thorn in everyone's side.

Edit: And maybe even Palossand? I find that is a good mon too, but I'm having trouble seeing how it could survive a frontloaded water attack and survive long enough for it's defense boost to be valuable.

 

[deoxysdude94]

Okay, I got a question... I can tell Toxapex is probably gonna be a REALLY big threat in the metagame. But what is a better option in singles, if running merciless and venoshock? Toxic or Baneful Bunker? I feel like toxic would be better, but moves like protect and baneful bunker definitely have a place...

 

[Fawoosh]

Okay, I got a question... I can tell Toxapex is probably gonna be a REALLY big threat in the metagame. But what is a better option in singles, if running merciless and venoshock? Toxic or Baneful Bunker? I feel like toxic would be better, but moves like protect and baneful bunker definitely have a place...

Baneful bunker for sure. Merciless is going to be the go to if you have poison synergy. Regenerator, while a fantastic ability, does not heal it for very much considering it's VERY low base hp. It'll heal for 50~ assuming max hp at level 50, and 100~ assuming max hp at level 100. Not a lot, really. Helpful, sure, but will you get more value out of autocrits, I wonder?

Paired with Salazzle who can poison anything, Venoshock/Scald crits are going to hurt really bad. Baneful bunker is essentially an auto poison and the protect effect on top of that is way better than Toxic, which a variety of other mons can do for you.

Without Salazzle, Regenerator might be the go to, but Baneful Bunker is still the choice here. Scald, Venoshock, Baneful Bunker and Recover. Holding Toxic Sludge so you can hold a Leftovers elsewhere on your team.

 

[Karxrida]

Okay, I got a question... I can tell Toxapex is probably gonna be a REALLY big threat in the metagame. But what is a better option in singles, if running merciless and venoshock? Toxic or Baneful Bunker? I feel like toxic would be better, but moves like protect and baneful bunker definitely have a place...

1.) Don't run Merciless, it's a bad gimmick. Toxapex is a fatmon with Regenerator, abuse that so it won't die.
2.) Don't run Baneful Bunker. Toxapex is unable to capitalize on it due to a variety of reasons I'm too lazy to go into atm, plus you're better off fishing for Scald burns against contact move users.
3.) Run Toxic.

 

[Fawoosh]

1.) Don't run Merciless, it's a bad gimmick. Toxapex is a fatmon with Regenerator, abuse that so it won't die.
2.) Don't run Baneful Bunker. Toxapex is unable to capitalize on it due to a variety of reasons I'm too lazy to go into atm, plus you're better off fishing for Scald burns against contact move users.
3.) Run Toxic.

That's not a very compelling counter-point.

 

[Karxrida]

This explains why BB is bad.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/toxapex.3587425/page-3#post-7098746

I really shouldn't have to justify why you don't drop Regenerator on something this bulky for an offensive ability. Toxapex is a wall and its offensives are horrible, play to its strengths.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

So since Dark Void's been nerfed to s***, what's Darkrai running as a replacement? Or replacements if multiple.

 

[KillerDraco]

So since Dark Void's been nerfed to s***, what's Darkrai running as a replacement? Or replacements if multiple.

Laughably, Hypnosis is now it's most reliable sleep inducer.

But in all seriousness, Nasty Plot with three attacks or Substitute sets are all it has to work with now.

 

[Onyx Tanuki]

The only downside is that Water Bubble basically locks into mono moves. 70 base attack means that any other type of move is going to have a bit of a below-average impact, making Araquanid very predictable. If Araquanid turns out to be the beast I predict, we may see a rise in the use of mons with Water Absorb and Storm Drain, which you should keep in mind. Vaporeon, Quagsire, Jellicent, Gastrodon and even Seismitoad will come back to see popular play if Araquanid takes off. Also to check Golisopod who I think will also be a thorn in everyone's side.

I can attest to this. I was using a Waterium Z Rain Dance Araquanid in Showdown and while most pokemon were pretty easily wrecked (even Toxapex took over 50% from rain-boosted Liquidation), I got my butt handed to me by a Vaporeon that effectively PP-stalled me into submission. I had recovery via Leech Life, but it was recovering almost exactly what Scald was doing to me, and my only other attack was a piddly Crunch. :| Kartana would have been a great pokemon to pair with it, but alas.

That said, I wanted to ask: until a competitive thread is actually set up here, is it okay to post Showdown teams in this thread, or do I absolutely need to wait? Rules do officially state that I can't do a new topic unless it's meant to lead to a discussion (which, while it'd be cool, is not something I'd expect from a thread showing off a team), and there's neither a RMT or Singles Rating thread here to post the team or its individual mons in. At the very least, is there an ETA on when such threads would be created? Nevermind I'm a dumb. XD I found it.

 

[Fawoosh]

I can attest to this. I was using a Waterium Z Rain Dance Araquanid in Showdown and while most pokemon were pretty easily wrecked (even Toxapex took over 50% from rain-boosted Liquidation), I got my butt handed to me by a Vaporeon that effectively PP-stalled me into submission. I had recovery via Leech Life, but it was recovering almost exactly what Scald was doing to me, and my only other attack was a piddly Crunch. :| Kartana would have been a great pokemon to pair with it, but alas.

That said, I wanted to ask: until a competitive thread is actually set up here, is it okay to post Showdown teams in this thread, or do I absolutely need to wait? Rules do officially state that I can't do a new topic unless it's meant to lead to a discussion (which, while it'd be cool, is not something I'd expect from a thread showing off a team), and there's neither a RMT or Singles Rating thread here to post the team or its individual mons in. At the very least, is there an ETA on when such threads would be created? Nevermind I'm a dumb. XD I found it.

Not sure how useful it would be, but I was thinking more of a toolkit along the lines of Liquidation, Infestation, Power Split and Mirror Coat.

132 SpDef is no joke, and 42 base speed means it's not outspeeding much so I wouldn't really invest in it. Investing your extra EVs into SpDef could be a very surprising turnaround for your opponent when you suddenly OHKO it with a Mirror Coat.

 

[Mr.Munchlax]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually come up with any competitive sets or strategies using Z-Crystals yet? I've been seeing a few YouTube videos and I've been occasionally looking on Smogon Forums, but I haven't seen anyone attempt to try using Z-moves for their team rosters. I know that Z-Crystals are like mega stones and only one pokémon can use them for a battle, but I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone run some kind of Z-Crystal set by now. Aside from taking into consideration all of the nerfs, the buffs, and the fact that megas are banned at the moment, everyone's just been using the same type of strategies that they used for Gen VI.

Is it because the games are still fairly new and people are still trying to figure out how to properly run Z-Crystals, or are competitive gamers considering them useless for VGC?

 

[MetalSonic]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually come up with any competitive sets or strategies using Z-Crystals yet? I've been seeing a few YouTube videos and I've been occasionally looking on Smogon Forums, but I haven't seen anyone attempt to try using Z-moves for their team rosters. I know that Z-Crystals are like mega stones and only one pokémon can use them for a battle, but I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone run some kind of Z-Crystal set by now. Aside from taking into consideration all of the nerfs, the buffs, and the fact that megas are banned at the moment, everyone's just been using the same type of strategies that they used for Gen VI.

Is it because the games are still fairly new and people are still trying to figure out how to properly run Z-Crystals, or are competitive gamers considering them useless for VGC?

Right off the top of my head there's Waterium-Z Manaphy and Normalium-Z Porygon-Z which are pretty well off as set up Z-Moves. Offensive Z-Moves are meant as more of a surprise factor KO on things that wouldn't normally be KO'd by the Pokemons usual option. An example was Darkium-Z Necrozma. I believe that was used quite a bit when Aegi was allowed in order to surprise KO it. I may be completely wrong though, I haven't been able to look stuff up as vehemently as I used to lately, but that's what I remember takin in as data regarding competitive Z-Move usage. Would anyone like to help me out here?

 

[Italianbaptist]

So what's the scoop on Type:Null and Silvally? I'm hearing quite a few people saying that Eviolite Type:Null is actually a better choice than evolving it. I wouldn't mind getting a Silvally also and running them both since they're so cool looking, but is Silvally the new disappointmon?

 

[BlazingRagnarok]

So what's the scoop on Type:Null and Silvally? I'm hearing quite a few people saying that Eviolite Type:Null is actually a better choice than evolving it. I wouldn't mind getting a Silvally also and running them both since they're so cool looking, but is Silvally the new disappointmon?

The most important thing to remember about Type: Null is that it has the highest BST of any unevolved pokemon in the game. At 534, it's stats are on par with fully evolved starters, and its bulk is slightly higher than Incineroar even without eviolite. Its offensive and defensive stats don't increase at all upon evolution, and the only stat that does is speed, from a no-mans-land 59 to a lower-than-acceptable 95. RKS system is a great ability, and it allows Silvally to access some unique type/move combinations. Silvally also learns some TMs that Null does not.

 

[KillerDraco]

So what's the scoop on Type:Null and Silvally? I'm hearing quite a few people saying that Eviolite Type:Null is actually a better choice than evolving it. I wouldn't mind getting a Silvally also and running them both since they're so cool looking, but is Silvally the new disappointmon?

The most important thing to remember about Type: Null is that it has the highest BST of any unevolved pokemon in the game. At 534, it's stats are on par with fully evolved starters, and its bulk is slightly higher than Incineroar even without eviolite. Its offensive and defensive stats don't increase at all upon evolution, and the only stat that does is speed, from a no-mans-land 59 to a lower-than-acceptable 95. RKS system is a great ability, and it allows Silvally to access some unique type/move combinations. Silvally also learns some TMs that Null does not.

Type: Null's advantage over Silvally is that it is ridiculously bulky with Eviolite, to the point where it actually has better bulk than Porygon2. However, the problem arises that Type: Null lacks reliable recovery, so it's not exactly sustainable in a defensive role, unlike the aforementioned Porygon2 for instance. It can run Eviolite to be a bulky tank, but as BR mentioned, Silvally's better speed and movepool aid it offensively. The problem that Silvally has in the long run is although being able to be any type gives it a degree of versatility, it remains outclassed at a lot of the roles it might try to do. Although Silvally's stat spread is well balanced and its bulk is pretty solid, 95/95 offenses with 95 speed are awfully average offensively, due in no small part to the power creep that's taken place over the years. So if you're using Silvally, you have to be careful you're not trying to do something that another 'mon does better.

 

[Karxrida]

So what's the scoop on Type:Null and Silvally? I'm hearing quite a few people saying that Eviolite Type:Null is actually a better choice than evolving it. I wouldn't mind getting a Silvally also and running them both since they're so cool looking, but is Silvally the new disappointmon?

From what I've heard they're both lame. Type: Null is largely outclassed by Porygon2 (slightly bulkier than P2 iirc but no reliable recovery is a huge letdown) while Silvally is too unspecialized and wishes it got some of the cool moves Arceus has. No Recover, no E-Speed, etc. blows really hard.

Got kind of ninja'd.

 

[nel3]

does anyone have a suggestion on a near perfect 5iV dhelmise? i managed to get a near perfect 5IV adamant dhelmise while breeding GTS fodder. im only missing 1-2 IVs in 2 stats and i havent yet bothered to get destiny knot, too busy filling dex atm. i dont have any current plans for a battle team but id like to make this dhelmise competitive or as useable as it could be. id like to know what options i have while i wait to see how many of my current gen6 battle team can be transferred to gen7 (when PK bank becomes accessible).

the likely team members will be SPA (or maybe ATK lucario life orb), Flygon SPA??, day lycanroc, salazzle, primarina. i might use vikavolt but i havent put any thought together for some sort of team. im well aware this team is not the best choice of pkmn for a real competitive team but i havent really set any 6th team member yet, i might go with dhelmise as 6th slot. i wont be using any Z moves on the team, im not a big fan of them even though i know they are likely a important part of competitive pkmn now in gen7. is a bulky ATK dhelmise possible? i just want something thats usable in casual battles, i was never a fan of the common pkmn that made up proper battle teams.